Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Not sure what you are arguing, unless it is your obstinate stupidity.

"if a player (you) are in system"....it can give player 2 seconds advance warning of incoming, not will but can....if player is not AFK.

"if player is not in system"....player has to hope possible targets are AFK, busily multiboxing, or otherwise complacent. (this goes for Highsec ganking as well not just wardecs, or known competition of sites of those that attempt to steal them all the time)

SO yes, Local DOES work the same for EVERYONE, it just depends what side of local you are on to what effect you are getting/giving.

Quit being such a ******, everyone knows this is the mechanic, and you trying to argue a non truth really makes you stupid and uneducated sounding, not just a troll.......just stupid.

oh STFU already....
at least Linus had the decency to admit he came to this thread just to troll people.
You and your arguments have no more relevancy for this conversation anymore.

Okay, so you are a deliberately obtuse dimwit.

Thanks.

With respect to Max, yes.

I mean look at this,



WITF?

Oh, everything is fine local works exactly the same because the other guy might be AFK or not paying attention. This is a basic denial of facts--i.e. reality. Max actually notes that it does not work the same depending on which "player you are" but then concludes...no it does work the same.

The gymnastics the carebears go through to justify their world view is simply astonishing. Mike at least will put forward an argument that is at least looks more coherent than that jumble is idiocy and stupidity.

Not according Max it isn't. Then again, Max probably needs to be reminded to close his mouth.

Second, it points out how local is the problem and AFK cloaking is a symptom.

Frankly, I don't get your issue with cloaking Mike. You keep asserting that a cloak is too powerful because if I go to a secret safe, cloak up I am 100% safe. Remove local then who cares? So I am 100%. Big deal. I am not earning any ISK. I am not imposing any sort of threat on anyone. I am not acquiring any other sort of in game asset. If I am AFK I cannot even gather intelligence. If I am ATK, again...who cares? Presumably if you could scan me down after a period of time I'd not sit still long enough for you to catch me. I'd set up a sequence of safes and just roll them.

Really, when you talk about the safety of a cloak it is a ship cloaked at a secret safe spot. Not a cloaked ship moving as those die all the time. Basically you are complaining, IMO, about AKF cloaking but you do everything to not say you are complaining about AFK cloaking.

Yes, cloaks grant considerable safety, but they come on what are essentially pre-nerfed ships compared to their counter parts that cannot fit the covert ops cloak. I contend this is working as the Dev's intended by and large with the exception of AFK cloaking...which the Devs may not have intended as they did not intend for local to be an intel tool.

As has been explained, someone cloaked in a safe can't earn ISK and can't hurt anyone, so it's not a big deal.

Having intel channels and local chat in sov null for PvE-ers however, makes a person 100% immune to danger 100% of the time. Get rid of local, and the problem is solved.

This is factually untrue. People in cloaked ships die all the time, even when the cloak module is activated they are decloaked and die.

The only time this is true is when one is already at a secret safe with the cloak activated....which means either the person is ATK and sitting there doing nothing except maybe gathering intel (and working as intended) or is AFK and is not even acquiring that.



Yes and no. Yes if you are at a secret safe you have a very high degree of protection. Lets just call it 100% safety. Aside from that there are varying degrees of danger in that somebody can happen along and decloak you. I have jumped into a gate camp, been more than 2km away from the nearest object, but when I drop my gate cloak and in that split second before I engage the covert ops cloak a fast mover will start moving towards me and there have been occasions where I have been decloaked, scramed, webbed and killed. Or depending on the ship landing in a bubble and again somebody moving too close to you. This perfect safety is extremely limited both in when it happens and what the player can do while that safe.



They are both calculated risks Mike. That is where you are going off the rails. If you want the rewards of ratting in NS you should have to take risks. If I want to hunt deep in hostile by myself or with a small group of people then a cloaked ship is the ship to use. Cloaked ships are weaker than their non-cloaking counter parts by and large. And I am in hostile territory. When I engage your buddies could show up at any second and bail you out. In fact, that is the way it should work. And yeah, you should not be able to gather ISK and not have to remain aware. See you keep sliding right over that difference as if it is trivial, but it is actually key. Suppose I want to take a break, so I safe up with the cloak activated. What do I get?

ISK? No.
Ore/minerals? No.
Ice? No.
Any kind of spiffy modules? No.
Any spiffy blueprints? No.
Do I earn SP faster? No.

In fact, as I have pointed out, I am actually forgoing all of those things. That forgoing of benefits has a name, it is called opportunity cost. So not only am I not getting anything, unlike the poor ratter or miner, I am incurring a cost on top of it.

This is called balance Mike. I get nothing and incur a cost. Yes, you have to pay attention to get ISK or ore, or ice or whatever else it is you are engaged in. So yes, you have to pay more attention. For a reason. You are acquiring resources. I am not. Why should I have to pay equal attention to what is going on in game when I get nothing at all?

Yes, one could say the same thing about sitting at a safe in say a HAC. Thing is, the HAC was not designed to go into hostile territory alone or in a small group. Here is what the Eve Uni website has to say about covert ops cloaks,

You can only fit the CovOps cloak on covops frigates, stealth bombers, force recon cruisers, blockade runner industrials, and strategic cruisers - Tech 3 ships - with the Covert Reconfiguration subsystem. (link all these in chat, including a T3 & Covert Subsystem). There are four versions of these ships, one for each race.

Lets go see what they say about force recons,

Force recon ships are the cruiser-class equivalent of covert ops frigates. While not as resilient as combat recon ships, they are nonetheless able to do their job as reconnaissance vessels very effectively, due in no small part to their ability to interface with covert ops cloaking devices and set up cynosural fields for incoming capital ships.

Wow, looks like they are supposed to be sneaky. Basically a cruiser version of the covert ops frigates. Now what do those descriptions say,

Designed for commando and espionage operation, its main strength is the ability to travel unseen through enemy territory and to avoid unfavorable encounters.

Golly, look at that. Move unseen (hah, yeah there is that local thing again) and avoid unfavorable encounters. All working as intended, IMO.

Or when you try to do anything besides sit passively in space and congratulate yourself on how safe you are. Run a PvE site? Risk. Mine? Risk. Attack a PvP target? Lots of risk. This is the simple fact you keep ignoring, AFK cloaking is just a means to an end, and every end goal that cloaking sets up involves risk before you can get any reward from it.



Or, more realistically, click "dock" and be 100% safe long before anyone can catch them. At which point both the AFK cloaker and the target are 100% safe, and neither of them is accomplishing anything besides sitting there being 100% safe.



Thank god you aren't CCP, because that's incredibly stupid. Constantly moving between safespots is 100% safe just like being cloaked in a safespot under the current mechanics, it just involves more tedious and completely mindless button-clicking. Nothing is added to the game in exchange, so it should not work this way.;



Lolwut? If you're incompetent enough to make mistakes when moving between safespots then you're probably going to die very quickly if you try to do anything besides sit passively at a safespot while cloaked. The cloaked ships that are a meaningful threat to anyone are flown by people who are not going to screw up such a basic task.



Lolwut? No, it doesn't. The chance of failure is zero. Getting a probe result on a safespot takes longer than the time you spend in that safespot. A ship that is constantly moving is literally impossible to catch.

and you we talking about an "idiotic argument"...*sigh*

TLDR;

"I don't want to have to do anything at all to maintain my perfectly safe status while hunting others, any suggestion that I even need to remain at the keyboard is unreasonable"