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Does CSM have a 'carebear' representative?

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Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-01-23 22:38:10 UTC
Yeah, carebears have a poor history in the CSM.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Sara XIII
The Carnifex Corp
#22 - 2012-01-23 22:42:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Sara XIII
Well, I don't know about "all" carebears. But I do represent all non-asian Caldari, the entirety of Minmatar, and all the Amarr that have a resemblence to 1-Up Mushroom.

I can be reached via EVE-mail or personally in the Haatomo solar system most EVEnings (EST).

Did you have a question?
Between Ignorance and Wisdom
Roscada
We love Egg
#23 - 2012-01-23 22:44:28 UTC
Back in the everquest days, we called the carebears "blues." Name had some stigma too, but not quite as bad.
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
United Caldari Space Command.
#24 - 2012-01-23 22:46:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Deen Wispa
Cass Lie wrote:
No carebear (in a sense of no pew pew pvp) representatives, sorry. They are however guys somewhat advocating "the side" of high sec - Trebor for example. He is currently a member of DNS., but they are not your typical null alliance and Trebor has a history of being a long time high sec dweller I believe. Also Meissa, though living in low sec/whs, is sometimes advocating things on behalf of high sec. But both of them see the broader picture of Eve and are not lobbying for one particular group.

The last true carebear representative was Ankh in CSM5 and she was a complete and utter disaster.


Why was Ankh a disaster? I wasn't playing Eve for that long to know.

If you're looking for a CSM representative to be exclusively hisec, then you're not going to find him....or at least one who will get the popular votes.

Better to rally around a few CSMs who have a vested interest in hisec and understands that a viable hisec life is part of a healthy ecosystem that is New Eden. Hisec, nullsec, and lowsec have a symbiotic relationship towards each other


inb4 this becomes a threadnaught!

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
Atticus Lowa
Lowa Corp Industries and Security
#25 - 2012-01-23 22:46:15 UTC
CSM doesn't need a carebear rep they need a balanced mix of reps from ALL sides of the game.

not just so-called Alliance sheep puppets, i mean we have people suggesting that a portion of ship insurance should go to the ganker... seems a bit extreme...

BUT high-sec should reward less for its security, not much that can be done for null seeing its nearly player-driven.

can't say much for incursions seeing im not in a postion for doing them, yet anyways...

maybe faction warfare in low-sec pays particularly well?

look the bulk of my knowledge is in WH stuff, mining and mission running, so i dunno.

But most of all, i think that the PVP system we have makes the game unique, your NEVER safe, even in high-sec.
carebears seek to destroy this, the exact opposite want everyone else to die, the CSM seems dominated by the latter...

anyways, like in RL you need to vote for people who represent your poltics or your going to be in hell, so yes, maybe we get more balanced moderates?
Atticus Fynch
#26 - 2012-01-23 22:49:38 UTC
Atticus Lowa wrote:
CSM doesn't need a carebear rep they need a balanced mix of reps from ALL sides of the game.


My thought exactly. Perhaps instead of having general reps, it should be broken down to reps of different game aspects.

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Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
United Caldari Space Command.
#27 - 2012-01-23 22:49:50 UTC
The funny thing is that most of the population is in hisec and not nullsec. With proper grassroots campaigning, outreach, and organization, hisec could rig the CSM voting system in their favor

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
Umega
Solis Mensa
#28 - 2012-01-23 22:49:51 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Yeah, carebears have a poor history in the CSM.


They do.

If you think only null/low CSMs are the power hungry ones.. the past has proven completely otherwise. Being biased to assume only 0.4> aligned CSMs have hidden agendas stemmed from greed.

Shouldn't matter where the player who goes up for CSM is rooted in. Sure.. they'll have a better understanding and experince of that area if it suits your personal preference.

What should be focused on first, imo.. is a CSM first, understands the core of this game.. and then desires to simply make it a better game. Not better for you, him, her, them, I.. just a flat out better game while keeping the core of what is EVE, intact. Got to understand everything is connected.. null to high and everything that happens inbetween.. and don't create a disconnect between any of it.

 Ume-Pro Studios
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#29 - 2012-01-23 22:51:01 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Carbears are (like it or not) a part of EVE.


Carbears in my eve? - why - I never...

Anyway - I think Darius III is currently dealing with matters concerning carebears...
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Atticus Fynch
#30 - 2012-01-23 22:54:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Atticus Fynch
Deen Wispa wrote:
The funny thing is that most of the population is in hisec and not nullsec. With proper grassroots campaigning, outreach, and organization, hisec could rig the CSM voting system in their favor


Interesting point and it may show that hi-sec dwellers are not "aggressive" players in or out of game, resulting in poor political representation. You have to fight to be heard.

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
United Caldari Space Command.
#31 - 2012-01-23 23:02:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Deen Wispa
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Deen Wispa wrote:
The funny thing is that most of the population is in hisec and not nullsec. With proper grassroots campaigning, outreach, and organization, hisec could rig the CSM voting system in their favor


Interesting point and it may show that hi-sec dwellers are not "aggressive" players in or out of game, resulting in poor political representation. You have to fight to be heard.


I would agree. Aggression wins in this game. Hisec dwellers tend to be reactive rather than proactive. The lack of 'hisec power blocs' doesn't help in non-nullsec citizens being heard. Having said that, it's definitely still possible to win with proper coordination and campaigning.

Btw- does anyone have the official vote counts from last year? I'd like to review those numbers a bit.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
Cass Lie
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-01-23 23:04:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Cass Lie
Deen Wispa wrote:
Why was Ankh a disaster? I wasn't playing Eve for that long to know.

If you're looking for a CSM representative to be exclusively hisec, then you're not going to find him....or at least one who will get the popular votes.

Better to rally around a few CSMs who have a vested interest in hisec and understands that a viable hisec life is part of a healthy ecosystem that is New Eden. Hisec, nullsec, and lowsec have a symbiotic relationship towards each other


inb4 this becomes a threadnaught!


Some of her proposals were totally unreasonable, she was not cooperating with the rest of CSM, got herself eve-famous with certain spoon throwing incident and finally had to be kicked and banned from CSM for breaking some rules she signed when she was elected (the details were not made public afaik).

I agree with your post btw. Nothing wrong with a guy pushing high sec iteration, he just needs to see things in context (which, I'm afraid, usually requires having direct experience with areas outside of high sec).

EDIT: Dug up a link. http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3979&tid=1
Seems like ancient history now.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2012-01-23 23:05:56 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Deen Wispa wrote:
Until people stop referring to them as Carebears, you're not going to get one. Too much of a stigma comes with the word 'carebearing'.


Well, My Little Ponies just doesn't roll off the tongue.

@Atticus, read the minutes. That should give you a good idea of who the CSM represents.


Ponies take risks and gank things so they cannot be carebears.
Sicex
#34 - 2012-01-23 23:08:11 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Deen Wispa wrote:
Until people stop referring to them as Carebears, you're not going to get one. Too much of a stigma comes with the word 'carebearing'.


Funny, but I never saw anything wrong with the word. Better a carebear than a douchbag. (That's the flip side carebears right?)

A carebear is a risk averse person who wants the game changed to support their solo (sometimes multi) play style and forcing everyone else to play like them.

IE... they are douchbags.


Cant you say the same about the pew-pewers in EVE. I read a thread on how someone wants to counter cloaks with a cloak killer. Cloaks are one of the carebear's counter-measures.



Just FYI that "someone" was CCP.

Read patch notes, read forums, do research - if you are trying to say you are going to run for the carebears in the next CSM you better start by putting on your reading glasses, start writing your posts in a word processor first, and seldom post in general discussion. Just some tips to get you started... You might also tell all other carebears to not run so you have a chance.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#35 - 2012-01-23 23:10:48 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Deen Wispa wrote:
Until people stop referring to them as Carebears, you're not going to get one. Too much of a stigma comes with the word 'carebearing'.


Funny, but I never saw anything wrong with the word. Better a carebear than a douchbag. (That's the flip side carebears right?)

A carebear is a risk averse person who wants the game changed to support their solo (sometimes multi) play style and forcing everyone else to play like them.

IE... they are douchbags.


What is some one who is not risk adverse, but STRESS adverse, plays only non-stressful parts of the game and is perfectly happy with those who enjoy stress to play their way?

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Ai Shun
#36 - 2012-01-23 23:14:46 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
So carebears are a silent minority in CSM affairs. Interesting.


Well, again. Read the minutes of the last CSM meeting. You do not need a delegate designated as "High-sec" / "Low-sec" / "Null-sec" or "PvP / PvE" (Shudders) or "CareBear / EVE Player" to have representation at the CSM. The notes covers a wide array of topics, some for null, some for High, some for everyone.

Umega wrote:
What should be focused on first, imo.. is a CSM first, understands the core of this game.. and then desires to simply make it a better game. Not better for you, him, her, them, I.. just a flat out better game while keeping the core of what is EVE, intact. Got to understand everything is connected.. null to high and everything that happens inbetween.. and don't create a disconnect between any of it.


I think the current one is heading in that direction. They, combined with CCP, seem to be pushing things in the right direction. But well said, Umega, well said.
Sicex
#37 - 2012-01-23 23:17:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Sicex
Umega wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Yeah, carebears have a poor history in the CSM.


They do.

If you think only null/low CSMs are the power hungry ones.. the past has proven completely otherwise. Being biased to assume only 0.4> aligned CSMs have hidden agendas stemmed from greed.

Shouldn't matter where the player who goes up for CSM is rooted in. Sure.. they'll have a better understanding and experince of that area if it suits your personal preference.

What should be focused on first, imo.. is a CSM first, understands the core of this game.. and then desires to simply make it a better game. Not better for you, him, her, them, I.. just a flat out better game while keeping the core of what is EVE, intact. Got to understand everything is connected.. null to high and everything that happens inbetween.. and don't create a disconnect between any of it.


I keep agreeing with Umega.

I had posted this elsewhere too, I wish the CSM would promote all aspects of gameplay within EVE and is promoted into such a role by showing a distinct care for the community and game as a whole. Representative elections don't work this way, but as Umega said - the CSM needs reworking.

Also just as a heads up, I would say this is how the majority of 0.0 players and PVPers think because it is the players who embrace the cold (slowly warming), hard (slowly easing) universe of EVE that start to see the game in macrocosms. It is a type of epiphany that occurs when you truly have no more ISK or ships yet to continue to throw caution to the win to repel an invading force. If you haven't experienced the rush of battle, you do not know what makes EVE fun and attractive.
Atticus Fynch
#38 - 2012-01-23 23:22:15 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Deen Wispa wrote:
Until people stop referring to them as Carebears, you're not going to get one. Too much of a stigma comes with the word 'carebearing'.


Funny, but I never saw anything wrong with the word. Better a carebear than a douchbag. (That's the flip side carebears right?)

A carebear is a risk averse person who wants the game changed to support their solo (sometimes multi) play style and forcing everyone else to play like them.

IE... they are douchbags.


What is some one who is not risk adverse, but STRESS adverse, plays only non-stressful parts of the game and is perfectly happy with those who enjoy stress to play their way?



Wow! Excellent point. I guess people play games for different reasons. I have my passive moods..that's when I mine the most. Then when I get bored and am up for a challenge I go into low/null. Some may prefer one over the other though.

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-01-23 23:26:46 UTC
Highsec is welcome to organise and elect CSM candidates to ensure their views are heard.

On the other hand, they could just shriek and throw tantrums and demand that the CSM is disbanded instead because they're incapable of co-ordinating a political campaign.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
United Caldari Space Command.
#40 - 2012-01-23 23:28:24 UTC
Sicex wrote:
Umega wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Yeah, carebears have a poor history in the CSM.


They do.

If you think only null/low CSMs are the power hungry ones.. the past has proven completely otherwise. Being biased to assume only 0.4> aligned CSMs have hidden agendas stemmed from greed.

Shouldn't matter where the player who goes up for CSM is rooted in. Sure.. they'll have a better understanding and experince of that area if it suits your personal preference.

What should be focused on first, imo.. is a CSM first, understands the core of this game.. and then desires to simply make it a better game. Not better for you, him, her, them, I.. just a flat out better game while keeping the core of what is EVE, intact. Got to understand everything is connected.. null to high and everything that happens inbetween.. and don't create a disconnect between any of it.


I keep agreeing with Umega.

I had posted this elsewhere too, I wish the CSM would promote all aspects of gameplay within EVE and is promoted into such a role by showing a distinct care for the community and game as a whole. Representative elections don't work this way, but as Umega said - the CSM needs reworking.


I agree. There are some nullsec CSMs who have an interest in all parts of space being developed. Not everyone is bad. I think the issue (for this past CSM) is that Mitanni has publicly come out and made it an either/or proposition. Ex; "You're either with us (nullsec) or againt us."

Propaganda is one thing but the Chairman makes the jobs of other CSM delegates tougher but making statements which polarizes the community as evidenced in the inquiry for a 'hisec-only CSM' delegate.

But then again, you can't really be surprised since he said his RL profession is a lawyer. Lawyers by nature, are antagonistic. I guess this is one of those situations where life imitates a game. Go figure.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
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