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Do high-sec carebears really think they have any importance to nul-sec?
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Nullbeard Rager
Doomheim
#141 - 2012-01-02 18:55:12 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
We've had more impact on EVE Online: A Bad Game, than you have. Just sayin'.


Which isn't relevant to much of anything, outside of this game. Just sayin'.

Field of Trolls:  "If you chum it, they will come."
Nullbeard Rager
Doomheim
#142 - 2012-01-02 18:57:18 UTC
Selina Steel wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:


Blah.



Blah.

Thredd Necro wrote:


Blah, blah?



Blah.



Blah indeed.

Field of Trolls:  "If you chum it, they will come."
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2012-01-02 19:01:03 UTC
Nullbeard Rager wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
We've had more impact on EVE Online: A Bad Game, than you have. Just sayin'.


Which isn't relevant to much of anything, outside of this game. Just sayin'.

And ultimately, we're not relevant to the universe, either. Oh well so sad.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Nullbeard Rager
Doomheim
#144 - 2012-01-03 14:06:46 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Nullbeard Rager wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
We've had more impact on EVE Online: A Bad Game, than you have. Just sayin'.


Which isn't relevant to much of anything, outside of this game. Just sayin'.

And ultimately, we're not relevant to the universe, either. Oh well so sad.


Truth.

Field of Trolls:  "If you chum it, they will come."
Thredd Necro
Doomheim
#145 - 2012-01-09 23:42:30 UTC
Hiply Rustic wrote:
The thing is, there is a place for both playstyles. Forcing a player where they don't want to go ultimately forces them where CCP does not want them to go, elsewhere.

If, as so many say, HiSec players are irrelevant to the NulSec players then why the hate? It's not exclusive to EvE in any way shape or form, nor are the NulSeccers breaking any new ground with carebear bashing. It's been going on far longer than EvE has existed and has been done every bit as artfully (artlessly?) in other games...with results just as profound. As in not at all profound. PvPers have been hurling insults at PvEers since the genre came to encompass both playstyles, and I don't see that changing. In the case of EvE it's even muddied beyond that because there are certainly PvPers in HiSec, so now the bashing isn't even based on how one choose to play, but rather where one chooses to play...which frankly makes even less sense.

The game is not a themeparked sandbox that takes a new player by the hand in hisec, through a guided progression themepark which then drops them naturally into a nulsec sandbox. It's simply not designed that way. It could have been, but it wasn't. In a sandbox the players make the game...or games...from within a framework implemented by the devs.

That two distinct games have developed within that framework is not a bad thing, and it has created an environment which has a sustainability that a nulsec-only or hisec to nulsec forced funnel would not. CCP now has a game which someone who wants a minimum of risk can play at the same time that high-risk adrenaline junkies can get their fix. From their perspective that has to be a good thing. They will not nerf one of those games into the ground at the request of those favoring the other game. It's not in their best interests to do so, and it won't happen.

The way to attract new blood to nulsec is not to berate and belittle your carebear counterparts, any more than the Darktide community's constant mocking of the rest of the Asheron's Call population caused people to migrate to that FFA server. You need to convince people playing in hisec that they truly are missing out on a lot of fun and that they won't be simply entering a world where they are nothing but cannon-fodder lured there for the benefit of the old blood.

I haven't seen anything here that comes close to that.


Perhaps Pirate Hilmar is having too much fun picking his own pocket?

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which. - Douglas Adams
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#146 - 2012-01-10 19:20:56 UTC
Really, I wasn't so much offended by the ban Highseccers front; as interested in the disclosure of what I've long held to be true.

NullSec Alliances make NullSec Alliance Ships and Modules.

Nuff said.

I assume you got kicked from Test for this Thread; though not neccessarly for disclosing what everybody is trying to hide. More a result of bashing Alliance members and allies over the head with an iron pot.

Never troll your own!

The disclosure of information is relatively easy for NullSec Alliances to dismiss. They've been doing it for years; with a simple plausible deniability response.

Ps. Goons make all their stuff in Highsec, then ship it to Null.The fact that they have T2 BPOs sitting one jump from Jita only makes this easier; while recycling JFs full of minerals to those stations into the manufacturing process for all the modules and ships they produce cuts costs even more.

Any excess is sold on market from stockpiles as prices go up in peak periods, or held in those stockpiles when it's unprofitable to sell. Test is doing it wrong. It works of course, but the cost saving is to a much lesser degree; while refining is severely nerfed out of a POS.

I have to assume they do like many others, and JF the Compressed Ore to Highsec to refine; before hauling it all back to manufacture.

I'm sure Goons manufacture out of POS too, but to a lesser degree. The benefit there is that they have less required POS resources to do their production; while they can use BPCs to produce quickly certain products.

POS storage sucks, as does managing a whole lot of manufacturing out of them; which means it's less practical to do in mass quantity than shipping that production to highsec.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#147 - 2012-01-10 19:28:19 UTC
No, we don't.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2012-01-13 23:24:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Hiply Rustic
Thredd Necro wrote:
Hiply Rustic wrote:
The thing is, there is a place for both playstyles. Forcing a player where they don't want to go ultimately forces them where CCP does not want them to go, elsewhere.

If, as so many say, HiSec players are irrelevant to the NulSec players then why the hate? It's not exclusive to EvE in any way shape or form, nor are the NulSeccers breaking any new ground with carebear bashing. It's been going on far longer than EvE has existed and has been done every bit as artfully (artlessly?) in other games...with results just as profound. As in not at all profound. PvPers have been hurling insults at PvEers since the genre came to encompass both playstyles, and I don't see that changing. In the case of EvE it's even muddied beyond that because there are certainly PvPers in HiSec, so now the bashing isn't even based on how one choose to play, but rather where one chooses to play...which frankly makes even less sense.

The game is not a themeparked sandbox that takes a new player by the hand in hisec, through a guided progression themepark which then drops them naturally into a nulsec sandbox. It's simply not designed that way. It could have been, but it wasn't. In a sandbox the players make the game...or games...from within a framework implemented by the devs.

That two distinct games have developed within that framework is not a bad thing, and it has created an environment which has a sustainability that a nulsec-only or hisec to nulsec forced funnel would not. CCP now has a game which someone who wants a minimum of risk can play at the same time that high-risk adrenaline junkies can get their fix. From their perspective that has to be a good thing. They will not nerf one of those games into the ground at the request of those favoring the other game. It's not in their best interests to do so, and it won't happen.

The way to attract new blood to nulsec is not to berate and belittle your carebear counterparts, any more than the Darktide community's constant mocking of the rest of the Asheron's Call population caused people to migrate to that FFA server. You need to convince people playing in hisec that they truly are missing out on a lot of fun and that they won't be simply entering a world where they are nothing but cannon-fodder lured there for the benefit of the old blood.

I haven't seen anything here that comes close to that.


Perhaps Pirate Hilmar is having too much fun picking his own pocket?


Is that what they call it now?

Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
Gerod Theron
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#149 - 2012-01-14 19:06:21 UTC
I did not even read this thread, only the title. my reply is this.

High sec care bares may not be important to the nul sec crowd, but we pay our monthly fee also, and there fore CCP thinks we are very important. And it gives me comfort to know that this irks the OP.

So live with it, CCP wants my money, and they do not care if the nul sec crowd dose not see my importance.
Juliana Stinger
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#150 - 2012-01-15 10:49:34 UTC
ok
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#151 - 2012-01-17 05:57:30 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:


I assume you got kicked from Test for this Thread;


Holy ****! This thread is still going????? Dear god...

oh.. and LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL... being kicked from TEST for posting, that will be the day.

NEVER stop posting.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2012-01-17 07:38:48 UTC
In your case, I can believe it.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#153 - 2012-01-19 00:56:07 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
In your case, I can believe it.


then you don't know TEST very well.
Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#154 - 2012-01-23 23:08:05 UTC
im inclined to agree with zim to be honest
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#155 - 2012-01-24 21:34:41 UTC
OP, I've been reading responses, as well as your own original post starting this thread, and I have to say, your points have been answered more than once. However, confirmation bias prevents any acknowledgement of such, and the conflicting anecdotes concerning various points of Nulsec really just makes this a big bowl of WTF. So really, I am going to ask one simple question that I think is appropriate to your original question....

Do Nulsec Carebears really think they have any importance in Hisec?

In other words, you worry about Nulsec, we'll worry about Hisec, and both sides should really be lobbying for a practical and realistic buff for Losec. Seems those guys have been forgotten in this epic power struggle that is driven by money. None of this was even close to the boiling point that it is now until Incursions really started pouring out Isk through manipulation of mechanics.

Fix Incursions, then leave Hisec and Nulsec be, then put some brain matter together and do something about Losec.
"If."
Kiran
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2012-01-25 18:14:25 UTC
I have been in some big alliances and I can safely say that they had regular jumps to high sec to buy their ships and moduals. And the pvp'ers in the alliance I have heard over VOIP programs saying that industry should be removed from the game.

Its good that Test Alliance has industrial players and that they find they can sustain thier ships and ammo in null sec. It is a shame that not many other large sov holders look at things the same way.

I now live in NPC null sec but I run Incursions in High sec to make my ISK. I can earn 10 million every 8 minutes in high sec yet in null sec it would take me in the region of 45 minutes to 1 hour in NPC space.
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#157 - 2012-01-25 20:25:11 UTC
Killstealing wrote:
im inclined to agree with zim to be honest


Not sure being in ESG lends your argument much credibility in this instance. But vOv
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#158 - 2012-01-26 03:12:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
I don't know. Well if you believe there are tons of miners in null-sec, then I suppose.

Someone has to mine veldspar though. Please do your best at mining the veldspar we need.
Kiran wrote:
Its good that Test Alliance has industrial players and that they find they can sustain thier ships and ammo in null sec. It is a shame that not many other large sov holders look at things the same way.

Honestly, I think people keep industrial capacity, but don't use it when cheaper alternatives are available. Certainly stocks of war materiel are built up in preparation for war. Being blown up thrice in a day isn't sustainable if you have to import the next two maels.

P.S. Need to stockpile more blackbirds.
Mars Theran wrote:
I have to assume they do like many others, and JF the Compressed Ore to Highsec to refine; before hauling it all back to manufacture.

Actually, I am pretty sure its easier to get money from ratting (or whatever) and just buy the minerals. There's a reason newbies (as every nullsec ganker knows) fly expensive Noctises and salvage instead of spending a few days to get a Retriever and mine.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#159 - 2012-01-26 03:36:07 UTC
WTS PR Agent for TEST alliance.

Seems most of their members are clueless when it comes to "hearts and minds" propoganda. In fact quite the liability seems to be the common factor.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Deltor Griffith
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#160 - 2012-01-26 20:04:33 UTC
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:


I assume you got kicked from Test for this Thread;


Holy ****! This thread is still going????? Dear god...

oh.. and LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL... being kicked from TEST for posting, that will be the day.

NEVER stop posting.


You should really stop posting.