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So now what, Sanmatar Shakor?

Author
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#21 - 2017-05-30 13:21:23 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
Convince the Empress that the war makes no economic sense

Unfortunately (for us), the toy war does make economic sense to the Empire.

It does?

Why?

Read the gods-be-damned thread.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#22 - 2017-05-30 13:46:22 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
Convince the Empress that the war makes no economic sense

Unfortunately (for us), the toy war does make economic sense to the Empire.

It does?

Why?

Read the gods-be-damned thread.

Sorry. I mistook making economic sense to mean it was actually beneficial rather than being less detrimental to the Empire than it is to the Republic.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Arrendis
TK Corp
#23 - 2017-05-30 14:04:12 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:

The Republic is smaller by far than the Empire, so in any war of attrition, if it runs for long enough, we will lose.


Not true. Let's say the Republic represents 1/5th the Empire's military-industrial power. In a war of attrition, if the Republic can inflict more than 5:1 losses, it is not losing. Are we able to currently measure the two nations' military, economic, and industrial capacities accurately enough to judge what the 'win/loss' threshold is right now? I don't think so. It's quite likely the Republic is performing below the 'win' threshold, but you can't say it's inevitable.

Elmund Egivand wrote:
For one, we could have someone who knows how to hold and secure territories to draft up a plan (border defense, budget and manpower estimations) to secure the region and shove it under the Tribal Council's nose repeatedly until they give an answer.


Alternatively—and this is just a crazy spitballing thing—someone who knows how to hold and secure territories and is active and available to do so in the war zone could draft up a plan (border defense, patrols, fortifications, etc) and enact it. Again: taking the war zone is one thing. Political pressure will happen when/if you hold the war zone and have the leverage to actually pressure the government. Right now, you've got a moment. You need to make it a movement.

Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:

I believe that traditionally it is assumed the Sanmatar's role also was to mediate between the tribes and to speak for the whole tribal council in matters that require tribal consensus.


Neither of which empower him to speak for anyone but himself until that consensus is reached. Mediation does not mean he is empowered to dictate what that consensus is. In fact, it means that until consensus is achieved, he cannot endorse any position on the matter, because that would prejudice his role as a mediator. You can't be the arbiter if you've already chosen a side.

But all of that is only relevant if you want to keep your focus and activity in the current war zone. And on that score, I agree with Mizhara almost completely: get out of the war zone. Build something bigger. Build something that exercises real strength. But don't shoot for being able to take on Shadow Cartel. Shoot for being able to take on NCdot, PanFam, or Goons. Always aim higher than you think you can reach, and push to do it anyway.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2017-05-30 14:16:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
He speaks for the Tribes when dealing with those outside the Republic. Otherwise, whatever decision on how to steer the Republic lies with the Seven Tribal Chiefs/Elders of the Tribal Council. I reckon it's best to shove the proposal under all their noses until they get annoyed enough to call for a meeting and discuss the matter.

I believe that traditionally it is assumed the Sanmatar's role also was to mediate between the tribes and to speak for the whole tribal council in matters that require tribal consensus.

Of course, the whole thing is just a reconstruction from a few old folk tales sold to the masses as The One True Matari Way(tm), so anyone can take whatever approach to what is required of him (how convenient!), but at least how the nomination was advertised to begin with as a "mediator" for the council supports my idea.


Unfortunately, the Sanmatar cannot *force* a Tribal consensus. He can only be there to help mediate the discussion to ensure nobody starts throwing shoes at each other instead of discussing and debating like proper gentlemen/gentleladies. That is what being a mediator is about. It's only when the Tribal chiefs/elders finally come up with a consensus, if they do come to a consensus, that he can then deliver their decisions to the relevant parties as their Voice.

Again, the role of the Sanmatar is not to make any decisions unless the situation is dire enough that he had to use his Executive Power (after which, he will have to relinquish his position as Sanmatar after the crisis is over). He is there to help smooth things along and to speak to all the relevant parties about the Tribal Council decisions. The real power belongs to the Tribal Chiefs/Elders, which is why I pointed out that it's best to cut the middleman and just annoy them instead.

Or if you absolutely have to annoy the Sanmatar, include the rest of the Tribal Council into the mailing list.

Personally, in regards to the military, I think the biggest issue is the mismanagement of human resources. The standard Republic Fleet warship uses far more crew as compared to the Federal Navy, the Caldari Navy and, heck, even the Amarr Navy. The people/ship ratio is too disproportionate. While new designs and redesigns are being churned out diligently in order to modernise the Fleet, there isn't nearly as much effort being made given to address this disproportionate crew/ship ratio.

However, I acknowledge that incorporation of more automation to reduce manpower needs of each warship and thus allowing the use of more warships (and the Republic does really have alot of warships, but could definitely use even more) requires further expenditures, and thus there is a need to, at least for the time being, focus on getting the income, and to manage that money flow, in order to accomplish this.

However, considering that the Minmatar Republic is consistently producing quality products, the fruits of the brilliant materials scientists and engineers of the Republic, added by the income from taxations on capsuleer incomes in Rens and Hek and the purchase of blueprints and implants via the various corporations which service capsuleers (including the TLF), I had to wonder why the Republic isn't already working on remedying the problem. I suspect, having observed the wildly inconsistent distribution of wealth and infrastructure in Republic space even in the core worlds, that the money isn't being managed properly. How many percent of that income is going into the Tribes and how many into Republic coffers? How much is really being put into infrastructure and economic development and how much into defense?

Considering that the Republic did have that one incident of confused hierarchy (Colelie, where a Republic Fleet detachment entered Gallente space under the orders of not the Tribal Council but the Sebiestor Tribe, despite their supposedly answering to the Tribal Council and the Republic as a whole instead of individual Tribes), perhaps the matter hasn't entirely being straightened out, which is the cause of this kerfuffle?

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#25 - 2017-05-30 14:23:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
What intel is your idea that the Colelie incident was Sebiestor tribe's based on?

For the record, I was on the field that day, part of the chain of command, and there were Fleet officers of all tribes present. The capsuleer liaison was Heder Elislar, of Brutor Tribe. Information we got about who had ordered the strike were merely that the orders were "directly from the top".
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
#26 - 2017-05-30 14:28:08 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
When Jamyl was on the throne, there might have been a case to argue for pushing on to the Sarum Prime system, to demonstrate the resolve of the Republic. As I recall it's only a few jumps out from the war zone.

But with Catiz on the throne, then pushing to Tash-Murkon Prime is a bigger task. Bhizheba, Imperial Navy HQ itself stands in the way.

Convince the Empress that the war makes no economic sense and you might have a chance at a settled peace. I am not sure you can get a military solution.

And of course there is always the prospect of a military inclined Emperor appearing who could put the Empire on a total war footing.


As it has been mentioned before. The military option may not be the way that Catiz plans to win any war.

Her stratagems are based on a business mindset and having the resources of the largest faction in New Eden she bring those forces to bear. The militias serve to keep the proxy wars going while at the same time Amarr products and services enter the Republic Market.

It's the economic war that the Tribes really have to worry about in the long term.

And all perfectly legal as far as CONCORD is concerned.

We stand at the Abyss, drawing the Patterns of Fate - Casserina Leshrac, Savant, Sani Sabik.

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2017-05-30 14:49:42 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
What intel is your idea that the Colelie incident was Sebiestor tribe's based on?

For the record, I was on the field that day, part of the chain of command, and there were Fleet officers of all tribes present. The capsuleer liaison was Heder Elislar, of Brutor Tribe. Information we got about who had ordered the strike were merely that the orders were "directly from the top".


It appears that I have been mistaken about where the orders are coming from.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2017-05-30 19:39:52 UTC
In fact, when the new Sebiestor Chief was chosen one of her first acts was to condemn the Republic and other Tribes for handling Sebiestor Tribal business, meaning the events surrounding Karin Midular's assassination and Colelie.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#29 - 2017-05-30 20:18:05 UTC
I seem to remember a leader taking advantage of his side holding the FW zone to take steps to permanently settle it. I seem to remember that act causing a serious rebirth of interest in the other side fighting the war.

If I thought for a moment that the clock might be ticking on a final disposition of worlds in the contested area, you wouldn't be able to get me out of the cockpit and I suspect that would count for many other pilots on all sides.

The whole system is tuned such that the moment you win, it makes contesting your win the most profitable part of the war. People are going to come out of the woodwork to do so, and if there isn't at least one system already lost, I'd be very surprised. It's the nature of the beast.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#30 - 2017-05-30 20:23:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
if there isn't at least one system already lost, I'd be very surprised. It's the nature of the beast.

Kamela is highest contested, at about 33 percent. It went up to 60+ pretty much immediately after Arzad fell, but has been brought down again.

Not that I expect this to last.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#31 - 2017-05-30 21:16:02 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
if there isn't at least one system already lost, I'd be very surprised. It's the nature of the beast.

Kamela is highest contested, at about 33 percent. It went up to 60+ pretty much immediately after Arzad fell, but has been brought down again.

Not that I expect this to last.


Colour me surprised. I guess the profiteers decided to have breakfast in bed, this morning.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Arrendis
TK Corp
#32 - 2017-05-30 21:48:30 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Colour me surprised. I guess the profiteers decided to have breakfast in bed, this morning.


Or they've figured out that if they're going to deal with faction modules, they don't need to be subject to the whims of the warzone for their armor hardeners.
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