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All capital ships will be 10% more expensive in 119.6
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JC Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2017-05-28 18:47:14 UTC
for a lot of ships theyre not even worth building if you can sell the materials for more than the value of the ship
this is true for a lot of frigates even with 10/20 bpo and ec bonuses
i cant explain why this is but im guessing its to do with old players stockpiling frigates and then the material cost changes
when were t1 frigs last rebalanced
about 5 years ago and the market still hasn't recovered
sigh
Dotaros Kolar
Doomheim
#22 - 2017-05-28 19:12:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Dotaros Kolar
It' about time for ccp to do their job and control the market via maximum prices for all items.....

It's getting out of hand....

Cut it all at 75% of the current situation......

A little more socialism is not wrong.....
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#23 - 2017-05-28 19:13:04 UTC
Empress FriedEgg wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
What does moongoo have to do with it at all, ******* moron.


Moon goo has a lot to do with the manufacturing of Jump Freighters, ******* moron.

Except this thread is about Capital ships you ******* imbecile.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#24 - 2017-05-28 19:17:52 UTC
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2017-05-28 19:47:53 UTC
JC Mieyli wrote:
for a lot of ships theyre not even worth building if you can sell the materials for more than the value of the ship
this is true for a lot of frigates even with 10/20 bpo and ec bonuses
i cant explain why this is but im guessing its to do with old players stockpiling frigates and then the material cost changes
when were t1 frigs last rebalanced
about 5 years ago and the market still hasn't recovered
sigh

Apparently the low skill stuff is built by a lot of players for fun and not for profit, also, you know, minerals you mine are free. Hence your sell price above zero is your profit. Blink

Seriously, stop whining, and build stuff that's profitable, and ignore what's not. Yes, it's that simple, if you are out for profit.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#26 - 2017-05-28 19:52:20 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
JC Mieyli wrote:
for a lot of ships theyre not even worth building if you can sell the materials for more than the value of the ship
this is true for a lot of frigates even with 10/20 bpo and ec bonuses
i cant explain why this is but im guessing its to do with old players stockpiling frigates and then the material cost changes
when were t1 frigs last rebalanced
about 5 years ago and the market still hasn't recovered
sigh

Apparently the low skill stuff is built by a lot of players for fun and not for profit, also, you know, minerals you mine are free. Hence your sell price above zero is your profit. Blink

Seriously, stop whining, and build stuff that's profitable, and ignore what's not. Yes, it's that simple, if you are out for profit.


Related to this try and think of a market that might be somehow difficult for other players to get into. This might mean the more complex industry, or simply taking advantage of space or infrastructure you have access to.

T1 ships are especially tough to make money on since the demand is not that great and literally everyone trying industry first thinks 'I'm gonna build ships' so the supply is too high also.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
JC Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2017-05-28 20:28:56 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
JC Mieyli wrote:
for a lot of ships theyre not even worth building if you can sell the materials for more than the value of the ship
this is true for a lot of frigates even with 10/20 bpo and ec bonuses
i cant explain why this is but im guessing its to do with old players stockpiling frigates and then the material cost changes
when were t1 frigs last rebalanced
about 5 years ago and the market still hasn't recovered
sigh

Apparently the low skill stuff is built by a lot of players for fun and not for profit, also, you know, minerals you mine are free. Hence your sell price above zero is your profit. Blink

Seriously, stop whining, and build stuff that's profitable, and ignore what's not. Yes, it's that simple, if you are out for profit.

why should i stop whining when something needs to be improved or looked at another way
tell me the improvements this change brings to the game and the benefits it will bring to industry aspect
Empress FriedEgg
Hijo de la Luna
#28 - 2017-05-28 20:29:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Empress FriedEgg
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Except this thread is about Capital ships you ******* imbecile.


If you read the original post properly you would of understood this is about the construction of capital components in a Thukker Component Assembly.

Freighters and Jump Freighters are made using capital and advanced capital components, respectively.

******* imbecile.
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#29 - 2017-05-28 20:35:56 UTC
Dotaros Kolar wrote:
It' about time for ccp to do their job and control the market via maximum prices for all items.....

It's getting out of hand....

Cut it all at 75% of the current situation......

A little more socialism is not wrong.....


And it would destroy the part about this game having a player driven economy i mean if you can't afford it then maybe you shouldn't be buying it
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2017-05-29 00:17:34 UTC
Dotaros Kolar wrote:
It' about time for ccp to do their job and control the market via maximum prices for all items.....

It's getting out of hand....

Cut it all at 75% of the current situation......

A little more socialism is not wrong.....


Yes, because not having a ship at all is so much better than paying a high price for one. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2017-05-29 07:28:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Seen thread where some people complained losing a cap does not mean very much to them and would like to experience a real sense of loss. I doubt 10% would make a real difference to them but you never know...

The point is this change increases the role miners and industrial related game play elements play in the over all economy of Eve, and, why not, more important, cause some much needed conflict in the, forever blue, currently serene part of Eve labeled true sec.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
JC Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2017-05-29 08:05:39 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:
The point is this change increases the role miners and industrial related game play elements play in the over all economy of Eve.

cant say i agree with this
increasing the cost means existing caps are worth 10% more
that means there is no incentive to build new caps when they cant compete with existing caps in cost
if theres no incentive to build theres no incentive to buy minerals until the old stock of caps is expired and who knows how long that could take (if ever)
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2017-05-29 08:17:50 UTC
JC Mieyli wrote:
Gimme Sake wrote:
The point is this change increases the role miners and industrial related game play elements play in the over all economy of Eve.

cant say i agree with this
increasing the cost means existing caps are worth 10% more
that means there is no incentive to build new caps when they cant compete with existing caps in cost
if theres no incentive to build theres no incentive to buy minerals until the old stock of caps is expired and who knows how long that could take (if ever)



The incentive to build more caps is the conflict the change will, hopefully, generate.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Skorpynekomimi
#34 - 2017-05-29 10:32:55 UTC
Selling ships at a profit is about more than just 'haul it to Jita and set up a sell order'. You have to pay attention to supply and demand, and price accordingly.
For example, a shuttle in Jita is juuust about mineral cost. Selling it a jump or two into lowsec? You can charge two, three times that. Especially if you know the system and can sneak a crapton in with a big hauler when nobody's around. Deeper into lowsec, you can price them higher.

Economic PVP
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2017-05-29 19:30:58 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Selling ships at a profit is about more than just 'haul it to Jita and set up a sell order'. You have to pay attention to supply and demand, and price accordingly.
For example, a shuttle in Jita is juuust about mineral cost. Selling it a jump or two into lowsec? You can charge two, three times that. Especially if you know the system and can sneak a crapton in with a big hauler when nobody's around. Deeper into lowsec, you can price them higher.


Exactly. I can't tell you how many times I have paid 100,000 ISK for a shuttle because it was there in a LS system and I wanted that extra bit of protection around my pod (yes, yes, Capt. Obvious, I'd still die to a smart bombing BS).

If you sell where there is tremendous competition price will be largely driven down the marginal cost...which is the same as average cost in this game.

Econ 101, please learn it.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2017-05-29 19:58:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
JC Mieyli wrote:


[snip]

increasing the cost means existing caps are worth 10% more


Only if the price elasticity of each mineral is 1.

JC Mieyli wrote:
that means there is no incentive to build new caps when they cant compete with existing caps in cost


No, existing caps will also see their value go up too. This is a common mistake people who do not understand economics make all the time. I see it here in California when ever a gas refinery goes offline due to unscheduled maintenance (i.e. something broke unexpectedly). The price of gasoline goes up. People are outraged because they, incorrectly, reason that the gas in the tanks at the station was produced before the refinery went offline. But what the refinery going offline means is that less gas is going to be produced so that not only will future gasoline will be more expensive, but the existing stock is also more expensive because. So current caps will also become more valuable.

JC Mieyli wrote:
if theres no incentive to build theres no incentive to buy minerals until the old stock of caps is expired and who knows how long that could take (if ever)


No, see the above.

Please take some time to learn some basic economics. And I mean really learn it. When markets get new information they react to them immediately. Markets and market participants do not wait around for things like this. For example, if I learn of this change and I trade in cap ships I'd want to buy as many as I could at the current price before the (at least some of the) manufacturers see their costs go up. My increased buying today will raise the price of caps today. As others see these prices going up they'll want to buy sooner vs. later as well. Either players speculating on cap prices or players who want a capital ship for their own use.

For example, consider the following:

You are a pig farmer. The price of pig feed goes up. What happens to the price of pork in the grocery store? You might be thinking, it will go up. And eventually it will. But early on it could quite possibly go down. The marginal pig farmers might decide to shut down operations and as a result slaughter all their pigs and sell the meat which temporarily increases the supply of pork at the grocery store.

And stop it with the doomsday scenarios. OMG, this increase in requirements will KILL the market. Please, the histrionics totally undermines your position. We have seen changes in requirements for things in game before and guess what, the markets continue to chug along quite nicely.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Skorpynekomimi
#37 - 2017-05-29 20:52:34 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Selling ships at a profit is about more than just 'haul it to Jita and set up a sell order'. You have to pay attention to supply and demand, and price accordingly.
For example, a shuttle in Jita is juuust about mineral cost. Selling it a jump or two into lowsec? You can charge two, three times that. Especially if you know the system and can sneak a crapton in with a big hauler when nobody's around. Deeper into lowsec, you can price them higher.


Exactly. I can't tell you how many times I have paid 100,000 ISK for a shuttle because it was there in a LS system and I wanted that extra bit of protection around my pod (yes, yes, Capt. Obvious, I'd still die to a smart bombing BS).

If you sell where there is tremendous competition price will be largely driven down the marginal cost...which is the same as average cost in this game.

Econ 101, please learn it.


There are too many unimaginative people around, and there's a profit in everything. Even buying skillbooks off NPCs and selling them in trade hubs.

Economic PVP
JC Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2017-05-29 20:59:57 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
No, existing caps will also see their value go up too.

i know thats my whole point
dont think i dont understand this stuff just because youre trying to compensate for a badly implemented system by saying sell it somewhere else
no one is gonna pay 1.9bn for a providence in genesis when they can pay 1.1bn for one in domain
JC Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2017-05-29 21:04:05 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Mieyli
Quote:
Please take some time to learn some basic economics. And I mean really learn it.

are you always this patronising
i already know what happens and its not what you say happens
Teckos Pech wrote:
OMG, this increase in requirements will KILL the market. Please, the histrionics totally undermines your position. We have seen changes in requirements for things in game before and guess what, the markets continue to chug along quite nicely.

now youre just putting words in my mouth for the sake of typing crap you learnt at school
the markets chug along nicely for those already established in those markets
very nicely
because they see the value of all their crap go up and make a nice profit
everyone else can suck it because they cant compete when the established traders are selling for less than the mineral cost
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#40 - 2017-05-29 21:11:38 UTC
JC Mieyli wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
No, existing caps will also see their value go up too.

i know thats my whole point
dont think i dont understand this stuff just because youre trying to compensate for a badly implemented system by saying sell it somewhere else
no one is gonna pay 1.9bn for a providence in genesis when they can pay 1.1bn for one in domain


Well seeing that the OP is talking about t2 components from moon goo...a providence does not need t2 components.

Further, it appears to just be those inputs. And considering that they are only a fraction of the costs it is not clear that the price will increase by 10%. In looking at the market for JFs their prices are not that different.

And you appear to be conflating regional price differentials vs. construction costs.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online