Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Local is the issue. AFK cloaking is a symptom.

If local isn't an issue everywhere it exists, then we have to look at the factors that are not the same in all those areas.


Hmm... seems like player effort is the difference.

No, the difference is the type of PvE content and average population.

Local isn't an issue in highsec because there are tons of zero-threat players in local at all times, so a hunter being in local doesn't alert their prey. It's a minor issue for wars, but only a minor one because most PvP in highsec is against lazy and/or stupid targets who happen to drift into a lazy ganker's sights while AFKing between gates.

Local is a different issue in lowsec because the PvE content is short in duration and usually protected by size-restricted gates and/or signatures that have to be scanned down. Local still gives you warning of any possible threat, and that's a problem, but it's more tempting to PvE with a hostile in local and depend on d-scan to keep you safe. And AFK cloaking is not an appealing counter to local in lowsec because of the short duration. If you aren't warping in immediately to attack then your target is going to finish their PvE site and move on, staying cloaked means that you aren't fast enough to catch them.

Local is a huge problem in nullsec because systems are mostly empty (meaning any non-blue in local is clearly identifiable) and PvE strongly encourages staying with a single system/site for an extended period of time. You can't just run out the clock on the PvE site before the hunter gets to you, so you're not going to try. You're just going to dock up the moment a potential threat appears in local, far faster than the threat can reach you and get a point on you. AFK cloaking is the only answer to the near-100% safety provided by local in nullsec, you have to populate local with potential threats 23/7 so that PvE players have to make a choice between accepting a little risk or never getting to PvE again.

While I generally go with dumb over mendacious, not in this case.

You are dancing all over it yourself with wardecs and suicide ganking. People still die from aggression, and local didn't protect them because they didn't go through the effort of making it useful.

It's much the same in LS. You *can* clear LS if you want with only slightly more fuss than Null Sec, but people don't...and thus it's not the same kind of problem for hunters either.

Wormholes are completely beyond the scope of a conversation involving local.

Only in NS are folks so butthurt that they litter space with throw away alts in cloaked ships because their joyride looking for soft targets is actually contested by dedicated defenders. It's not really about local at all, it's all about player efforts thwarting you.

Why are you a soft target if you are PvE-ing in null?

They don't go through the effort because dying to aggression in HS is very, very rare. And by that I mean the incidence rate. A neutral in NS is far more likely to be a direct threat than a neutral in HS. You absolutely know this. People who are not in a war dec and are not mining in a retriever or covetor can safely ignore local because the repercussions for doing so is so low. Why is that? CONCORD.

In NS, CONCORD is not there, and that makes local far, far more valuable because ignoring what it is telling you is far more likely to lead to significant loss.

And you have it wrong, most NS players do not come crying to the forums. The players who are truly butthurt are you and those like you.

That effort is for defending one's space, not local. Local is what lets you know a hostile is there. There is no effort expended to defend local, none is needed. Nor is there hardly any effort expended to obtain the benefits of local.

Or let me put it this way, local facilitates player effort to secure their space. Local makes it easier to defend one's space...it reduces effort.

Local is the problem, AFK cloak is the symptom.

Dealing with the symptom, while ignoring the problem, will almost surely lead to new problems, possibly even worse problems....or changes that come with a nerf to AFK cloaking that you simply will not like at all.

It's an MMO. You are allowed to let your friends help you. It's even better if you specialize in one thing and they specialize in another so your skills can complement eachother.

And this excuses unlimited time under a cloak how?

I mean, that's the whole central issue here. People do want to defend their space, prevent the gathering of intel, and do all manner of things to ships that have cloaks on them for no better reason than those ships are out in space. As this is EVE, that's the only reason anyone needs to have that chance, narrow though it may be.

Cloaks don't meet that standard though. A cloak can stay 100% safe for an unlimited time. Either the 100% safe needs to come down, or a reasonable time constraint be applied.

It's not a Local problem. Local is balanced all on its own by working the same for everybody (insert boilerplate). The issue is that cloaks have too much power, and the whiny children who rely on them are terrified a Dev might some day fix that so they reach for every shred of nonsense they can to try and defend it.