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PvP: medium Drones against Cruisers
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Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#21 - 2012-01-22 11:22:23 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Alright, then. Once recruitment for Rifterlings picks up we might try to make Amamake more interesting for you but as it stands now this is pretty much all we can muster.


I would've been fine if I remembered my targeting range script...
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#22 - 2012-01-23 04:12:09 UTC
any ship that is MWDing is most likley moving faster than your hammerheads. situation dictates. typicaly gallente are up close and in your face. if you can't get a scram on the target you're in trouble. if you are trying to kite and keep range you will want the valks.

today i killed a rax with ogre IIs ;)
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-01-23 16:03:47 UTC
Well there is a lot of conflicting opinion here.

EFT assumes full drone damage (for non-sentry drones) if the target has a maximum speed of less than the drone's maximum speed.

This in turn assumes:

1) Drones have pretty much infinite tracking
2) Drone always orbit their target within their optimal range

Has this ever been verified?

If it is true:

1) Does the Drone Sharpshooting have any effect on non-sentry drones?
2) Does the Omnidirectional Tracking Link have any effect on non-sentry drones?
3) Why did they adjust the Signature Resolution of drones in the Red Moon Rising patch so that Small Drones had a small signature resolution, Medium drones in the middle and Large Drones with the biggest, just like turrets (http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?newpatchlogID=2706). What would be the point of that if heavy drones still have the tracking to hit whatever they are orbiting?
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-01-23 21:58:04 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Has anyone ever done a really detailed analysis of how drones perform against each ship class?

A long time ago there was a lot of talk about Drone Navigation actually decreasing damage, because it made drones orbit faster and therefore loose hits due to tracking.


Drones track really really well. I'd be surprised if the problem is actually tracking - its more likely to be the range problem that certain NPCs have. If Amamake is as quiet as its been lately I'll take a stab at this tonight. I figure between Hahbs and Capt we've probably got enough ship types to get some kind of reasonable numbers out. :)

-Liang


I have just tested a largevariety of drones against a selection of moving/stationary/target painted small/medium and largetargets.

Drones certainly do not track really, really well.

In fact, as Petrus says, Hammerheads seems to have just the wrong combination of speed and tracking in certain situations so that they miss just about all the time.

Also, certain combinations of drone and target-speed end up with the drones slingshotting their target, loosing lock, then just idling in space...
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#25 - 2012-01-23 22:01:09 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:

I have just tested a largevariety of drones against a selection of moving/stationary/target painted small/medium and largetargets.

Drones certainly do not track really, really well.

In fact, as Petrus says, Hammerheads seems to have just the wrong combination of speed and tracking in certain situations so that they miss just about all the time.

Also, certain combinations of drone and target-speed end up with the drones slingshotting their target, loosing lock, then just idling in space...


Something is up then - heavy drones (as an example) have a 125m sig resolution and the tracking of small autocannons. Did you record the results or ... ?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-01-23 22:07:09 UTC
I did.

They are a bit rough though and I have to take into account target resists vs drone damage types then I might share some numbers.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#27 - 2012-01-23 22:11:00 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
I did.

They are a bit rough though and I have to take into account target resists vs drone damage types then I might share some numbers.


Cool - I'm glad someone got around to it. I should have but for some reason I get sucked into the "ooh look, a bait drake in belt one!" thing every time I log in. I'll just call a spade a spade: I'm kinda lazy. :(

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Lili Lu
#28 - 2012-01-23 23:12:46 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Uppsy Daisy wrote:

I have just tested a largevariety of drones against a selection of moving/stationary/target painted small/medium and largetargets.

Drones certainly do not track really, really well.

In fact, as Petrus says, Hammerheads seems to have just the wrong combination of speed and tracking in certain situations so that they miss just about all the time.

Also, certain combinations of drone and target-speed end up with the drones slingshotting their target, loosing lock, then just idling in space...


Something is up then - heavy drones (as an example) have a 125m sig resolution and the tracking of small autocannons. Did you record the results or ... ?

-Liang

Liang, is the Heavy tracking that good? Or, is it that heavys are so damn slow, so the target gains distance quickly, angular/transversal drops, tracking matters less and optimal takes over in the calculation, heavy drone fires, boom. Meanwhile Hammers being faster would still be trying to orbit but not doing it very well, so angular/tranversal stays high, drone can't track, medium drone fires, another miss and besides not enough optimal plus falloff to hit once the drone does get outrun and stops trying to orbit.

Drones are sorta odd ducks, they still have to deal with all the tracking and optimal issues while obeying a program telling them to catch up to a target and then start orbiting, when their best tactic would probably be to just approach, follow and not try to orbit.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#29 - 2012-01-23 23:18:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Lili Lu wrote:

Liang, is the Heavy tracking that good? Or, is it that heavys are so damn slow, so the target gains distance quickly, angular/transversal drops, tracking matters less and optimal takes over in the calculation, heavy drone fires, boom. Meanwhile Hammers being faster would still be trying to orbit but not doing it very well, so angular/tranversal stays high, drone can't track, medium drone fires, another miss and besides not enough optimal plus falloff to hit once the drone does get outrun and stops trying to orbit.

Drones are sorta odd ducks, they still have to deal with all the tracking and optimal issues while obeying a program telling them to catch up to a target and then start orbiting, when their best tactic would probably be to just approach, follow and not try to orbit.


Strictly speaking, the tracking *is* that good - at least assuming that drones follow the same logic as guns do (this has never been proven IIRC). However, your supposition also (theoretically, anyway) plays a *major* role in why heavies actually work so well against frigates. That's one of the reasons I wanted to try several different tests and see what the results exactly were.

I'm hoping that Uppsy actually did a lot of different tests instead of had hammerheads try to hit an AB'ing taranis for a few minutes.

-Liang

Ed: For the record, I was planning on having my carrier pilot RRing all my ships while I did the tests. But ... seriously undocking a carrier for dicking around in Amamake is pretty stupid unless its *really* quiet. I could do the test server but I'm more of a TQ pew pew kinda guy.

I could also cyno my carrier to somewhere quieter. I may do that. But... pew pew pew. :(

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-01-23 23:59:50 UTC
Yes I am trying a variety of drones on a variety of ships at a variety of speeds with a variety of speed mods.

It is interesting.
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