These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

What to expect when doing lvl4 combat missions?

Author
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#21 - 2017-05-11 04:54:49 UTC
Mister Poopypants wrote:
I admit that I "cheat" while doing lvl 4s by warping in with two Golems (with bastion modules) and a Nighthawk running shield command burst modules. The Golems target NPC battleships with cruise missiles while the Nighthawk targets everything else with heavies. This means most missions will only take a few minutes at most to complete, and most of the time is spent salvaging with a 4th account in a Noctis.

goodness that is a lot of alt-tabbing, and here I cba to dual box missions these days.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#22 - 2017-05-11 05:05:09 UTC
Emperor Xero wrote:
Hi everyone,

Update to my mission 4 happenings. I was offered “RECON 1 of 3” I found out only later that you can just blitz this mission, but I wanted to try out my shiny new 1.1b rattlesnake! Annnnnnnnnnddd……..

I’m terrible. So, check this out. I warp in I get immediate aggro I fire off my MWD and max it out all the while my shield drops by 50% trying to get to a clearing! There isn’t even that many enemies it just takes me forever to reach my max drone range of 80km. Meanwhile I watch my cap suck away at a crazy rate to finally reach 80km from my enemies. I drop sentries and start to shoot. It goes okay I guess I had to eat some 800caps just to warp out because I got into trouble. The biggest problem I’m facing is even with a MWD it takes forever to get to where I need to be to snipe. I’m at 20mil sp and most of my skills are lvl 4 and 5. You can see my ship build above on this thread. I don’t think there is an answer to any of the issues I’m facing though. Just to loot or reach a gate I’ll need to consume a 800 booster so I can actually move. Most of my implants are lvl 3- lvl4 as well.

you are in a high dps rattlesnake, you should be able to sit anywhere in the pocket and kill everything before your tank becomes an issue, and if it does, well hooray the rattlesnake also happens to have a shield resist bonus so it can have an insane tank. If you really just want to pull range use an MJD. Learn when to use a mjd and when to use a mwd, and bring a mobile depot so you can change between the two.

also I think you just found out why I don't like the rattler, thing is a bag of bricks that takes a lot to get going, poor agility and speed, I can't stand the thing.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Emperor Xero
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2017-05-11 20:34:22 UTC
Chaisaw, thanks much for the help man! You're right about the rattlesnake. Using it only a short while has already been pretty frustrating. I wouldn't know how long I would be able to last if I didn't warp to a snipe position. For some odd
reason my shields drop pretty fast (my rattlesnake build is above on this thread). I'm wondering if there are holes in my skills, but I'm not seeing any. Gallente BS is lvl 4 which should help with resists. I'm sporting sentries and a Gecko just in case
my overall damage is at 1300dps which is lower than I would've imagined i've seen many get over 1600dps but I'm guessing that's with lvl 5's and implants to get that high. I may just drop my MWD for a MJD and see how that goes. Although in doing that I'll never be able to loot anything :)
Yaosus
Draconis Impalers
#24 - 2017-05-12 13:24:21 UTC
Don't trust anyone who offers to help you and pay attention to suicide gankers. If you're under a wardec it means that someone has already spotted you, scanned you and you're about to get jumped and killed.
CMD Ishikawa
New Eden Public Security Section 9
#25 - 2017-05-21 05:03:18 UTC
I suggest you fit differently that ship, drop those expensive modules and go for a passive T2 tank, then with a mobile depot switch from a huge tank to huge dps, and adapt to every different situation. Rattlesnake is not a good sniper, I'm not saying it can't do it, it's just not the best for that.

Huge passive tank is shield power relays in lows, shield hardeners and extenders in the Mids, and shield purgers in the rigs.
After you have killed some NPCs and diminish the incoming DPS you can switch to damage modules in the lows.
As for drones... 2 Gardes, 2 Wardens and 2 Ogres/ 1 Gecko will handle almost anything and a flight of lights of course.
Rattle has enough mid slots to also place some target painters, those will help both weapon systems the missiles and the drones.
The mobile Depot... It allows a wide range of possibilities to the rattle, just place a bunch of different modules in your cargo hold and start testing switching fits.

All the advices you have been given here can be tried inside the same mission at any time just by deploying the depot.
Atomeon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2017-05-21 09:04:26 UTC
You are missing a rig. Also too many Missile modules. You supposed to shot Battleships with your missiles, nothing smaller.
Your Dps is more than enough, Imagine some ppl doing l4 with drones only (Dominix) and the Dps are fine.
guigui lechat
the no fock given
#27 - 2017-05-21 14:43:29 UTC
domi sentry = 600 ish dps.
BUT very good apply.

Gistum B-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field => drop that and get specialized hardeners. for guristas, therm.
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script => drop them. add in a second hardener (guristas, kine)
the second one may be replaced by a MJD, a T2 invul, a cap recharger.
Cap Booster 800 II => drop it and get a large cap battery II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II & Large Warhead Flare Cat II those are supposed to help you apply however your main damage comes from drones because they already have better apply . a Cap control circuit/capacitor safeguard would help with capa issues ; you can also use a shield rig that reduces boost cycle time( can't remember the anme) the capa is not an issue.

for the same price tag you can have

Quote:
[Rattlesnake, *Simulated Rattlesnake]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier

[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Thukker Large Cap Battery
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II

Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II




Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile x3000
Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile x3000
Optimal Range Script x1



it is not cap stable but has a good 700 ehp/s vs blood/sansha.

if you can afford, a gist x-large booster has same rep but better cap management AND less fitting requirement.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#28 - 2017-05-21 16:09:33 UTC
Atomeon wrote:
You are missing a rig. Also too many Missile modules. You supposed to shot Battleships with your missiles, nothing smaller.
Your Dps is more than enough, Imagine some ppl doing l4 with drones only (Dominix) and the Dps are fine.

With fury missiles it should be able to 1 volley most BCs and if you switch from fury to faction or precision you get decent application on cruisers. Destroyers should take one volley from anything, they have a really weird ehp/sig, and hopefully you don't need to shoot frigs with cruise, although I've heard precision works better than you'd think. I'd probably go with painters as MGC are stacking with the rigs, and the painters help out the drone damage too.

and sure people can do missions in a domi, but they are going to be much slower than a ship with roughly double the damage. And people can do missions in a brick tank drake, but I wouldn't call that "fine" when missions take over an hour.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#29 - 2017-05-21 16:42:40 UTC
guigui lechat wrote:
domi sentry = 600 ish dps.
BUT very good apply.

Gistum B-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field => drop that and get specialized hardeners. for guristas, therm.
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script => drop them. add in a second hardener (guristas, kine)
the second one may be replaced by a MJD, a T2 invul, a cap recharger.
Cap Booster 800 II => drop it and get a large cap battery II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II & Large Warhead Flare Cat II those are supposed to help you apply however your main damage comes from drones because they already have better apply . a Cap control circuit/capacitor safeguard would help with capa issues ; you can also use a shield rig that reduces boost cycle time( can't remember the anme) the capa is not an issue.

for the same price tag you can have

Quote:
[Rattlesnake, *Simulated Rattlesnake]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier

[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Thukker Large Cap Battery
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II

Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II




Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile x3000
Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile x3000
Optimal Range Script x1



it is not cap stable but has a good 700 ehp/s vs blood/sansha.

if you can afford, a gist x-large booster has same rep but better cap management AND less fitting requirement.

don't care about 600 dps with all the application in the world pretty much all my mission ships do double that with enough application.

the rattler has split weapons, the drones and missiles are about equally important there are situations in each mission where you will want to use one over the other but imo that all balances out. Things like use fury on bs/bc, sentries on frigs on approach, gecko on frigs in orbit, free fire at whatever is left with all the damage.

specific hardeners are better if unfamiliar with the missions, but with experience invulns are nice as you never have the wrong ones and don't need to waste time swapping. 1 shiny invuln + resist bonus gives better resists than 2 t2 invulns and no resist bonus, the tank is adequate.

also I'd rather use the cap booster, the single battery doesn't really do much, and the three safeguards don't really seem to do enough to be worth keeping. A mix of cap rigs and safeguards might be, but fury needs all the help it can get with application so I'd keep the rigor+flare. your 700 ehp/s claim I dunno where that came from, adding a em+therm hardener I'm seeing 324 sustained tank with an 807 burst. plenty for missions but a rather inefficient use of slots imo.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

guigui lechat
the no fock given
#30 - 2017-05-21 20:57:27 UTC
You compare shiny invul and T2 hardener. please stop. This is just a joke.

as I said, 700 ehp/s. you have 800, well that's good I didnt say he EXACTLY had this value. And YOU are not HIM so he may or may not have different values.

"with enough application" enough for you is not enough for other people. especially newbros need extended tank and application. And I'm pretty sure YOUR mission ships won't fit if used by newbros/will require specific skills. Like T2 cruise …

Also you dont want to waste time swapping invuls but you want to waste time refilling those cap boosters.
Buoytender Bob
Ronin Exploration Mission and Mining
#31 - 2017-05-21 22:01:53 UTC
Using cap booster and charges in PvE seems a waste: 1) the added cost and hassle to use decrease profit/mission and 2) the cargo bay on a 'snake is pitiful; those cap 400/800 eat up a ton of space if you plan to loot and that lowers profit/mission. A well designed passive tanked Rattlesnake doesn't have to worry about cap or shield boosting., maximizes cargo space with no need for booster charges or mobile depot, and is well tanked for all factions. I know that the OP doesn't have the skills atm, but this fit gives him one form of the Rattlesnake that is (over) well-tanked and gives him 1200+ damage:

Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Drone Range Augmentor II

Pithum -C Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum- C Adaptive Invulnerability Field
LSE II
Pithum -B EM Shield
Pithum -B Therm Shield
Large MJD
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II (script)

Shield Power relay II
Federation Navy Drone Damage Augmentor
Federation Navy Drone Damage Augmentor
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

3x Large Core Defense Field Purger II


Now I know it both falls somewhat along the lines of both guigui lechat's build/suggestion, as well as needing way too much in skill needs and build costs for the OP. RHML IIs add 100 more dps, but shorten range. I tend to waver between both weapon systems. The resistances for me are 85/88/84/87 with over 183k EHP. Yes, way over tanked and blingy; only used in HS However, I've fallen asleep too often doing missions and woke up a bit later to see a full cleared room. Using either Kinetic or Thermal (or in the case of a Gecko/omni), I am always both correctly tanked and weaponed and don't have to worry about either cap ,shield boosting in mission, or forgetting to switch hardeners between mission. Being cap stable (short of BR mission neuts) means that the cargo bay can be used for ammo and whatever loot he can cram in per mission. I do agree with Chainsaw that the Rattlesnake just has too many flaws to be used on a regular mission basis for me; I prefer either a Paladin or Kronos for rapid NPC reduction and full looting for each mission (the Golem is also used, but Caldari LP for faction ammo is tighter for me). I'm also too lazy to multibox/account, so my Marauders do the heavy lifting. Any build for PvE that keeps management simple and costs down greatly increase the chance of profit and minimizes risk. Whatever choices you make, try to remember to keep any build simple for PvE.

To buck the popular trend, I began to Rage Start instead of Rage Quit.

...and every time I get another piece of Carbon, I know exactly what CCP is getting this Christmas.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#32 - 2017-05-21 22:14:21 UTC
guigui lechat wrote:
You compare shiny invul and T2 hardener. please stop. This is just a joke.

as I said, 700 ehp/s. you have 800, well that's good I didnt say he EXACTLY had this value. And YOU are not HIM so he may or may not have different values.

"with enough application" enough for you is not enough for other people. especially newbros need extended tank and application. And I'm pretty sure YOUR mission ships won't fit if used by newbros/will require specific skills. Like T2 cruise …

Also you dont want to waste time swapping invuls but you want to waste time refilling those cap boosters.

I'd recommend the t2 hardeners, but they bought shiny and get an extra slot as a trade off. you can very much compare them, imo the extra cost isn't worth it.

and it isn't what I or anyone gets, it is what eft says. everything can be adjusted for skills

funny story, I trained t2 cruise like a week ago, I've never even used them on this character, like I said everything can be adjusted for skills, easy to swap for meta launchers.

gotta refill the ammo every so often, and refilling cap boosters goes in with that. Easier to move one item from hangar to cargo than swap a mod.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#33 - 2017-05-21 22:21:26 UTC
Buoytender Bob wrote:
Using cap booster and charges in PvE seems a waste: 1) the added cost and hassle to use decrease profit/mission and 2) the cargo bay on a 'snake is pitiful; those cap 400/800 eat up a ton of space if you plan to loot and that lowers profit/mission. A well designed passive tanked Rattlesnake doesn't have to worry about cap or shield boosting., maximizes cargo space with no need for booster charges or mobile depot, and is well tanked for all factions. I know that the OP doesn't have the skills atm, but this fit gives him one form of the Rattlesnake that is (over) well-tanked and gives him 1200+ damage:

pretty much every volley I fire costs more than the cap boosters I use on the average mission, cap boosters are super cheap. and the rattler has plenty of cargo room.

and I don't like the passive tank, gives up a lot of application, although that can be okay if your intent is to semi afk with it. I much prefer to focus on active running.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

guigui lechat
the no fock given
#34 - 2017-05-21 22:29:03 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:

gotta refill the ammo every so often, and refilling cap boosters goes in with that. Easier to move one item from hangar to cargo than swap a mod.


definitely NOT.
cap boosters are a pain in the ass on the rattle.ammos+2MTU will take half your cargo, boosters will take the other half.

and just because it's an EFT number does not mean it will be HIS numbers. he's a NEWBRO so he needs a NEWBRO build, not an all-V build FFS. quit arguing over "700 or 800" this leads nowhere.

shiny invul are WAY over the price for most, especially in term of effect. 300M an invul for +16% ehp/s over a T2invul, iirc.
Kubla-Kahn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2017-05-26 17:57:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Kubla-Kahn
I prefer running a 100mn Ishtar or a Gila for LvL 4's but this Rattler setup is pretty much easy mode;

[Rattlesnake, PVE]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Pithum C-Type Thermal Dissipation Amplifier
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II

Gecko x1
Bouncer II x2
Berserker II x2
Acolyte II x5

With my skills Bouncers hit to 80k, Rapid Heavy's hit to 60k. The Rapid heavies I found will even hit frigates quite well. Just jump in, MJD to 100 and wait for stuff to come into range or motor back a bit.

Of course you have to adjust your mid slot tank for where you are running missions.

It became too easy and that is why I prefer using the Ishtar or the Gila. Ran a few in a Wolf, but takes too long if there are a lot of ships.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#36 - 2017-05-27 03:57:37 UTC
guigui lechat wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:

gotta refill the ammo every so often, and refilling cap boosters goes in with that. Easier to move one item from hangar to cargo than swap a mod.


definitely NOT.
cap boosters are a pain in the ass on the rattle.ammos+2MTU will take half your cargo, boosters will take the other half.

and just because it's an EFT number does not mean it will be HIS numbers. he's a NEWBRO so he needs a NEWBRO build, not an all-V build FFS. quit arguing over "700 or 800" this leads nowhere.

shiny invul are WAY over the price for most, especially in term of effect. 300M an invul for +16% ehp/s over a T2invul, iirc.

carrying 2 mtus is a huge waste of space and imo not worth it. loot prices were at a level where they weren't worth it a while back and have since crashed and burned further.

and I'd hardly say op is a newbro, the fit posted has t2 cruise, t2 sentries, faction bcus, and shiny invluns, costs more than nearly all of my fits.

Kubla-Kahn wrote:
I prefer running a 100mn Ishtar or a Gila for LvL 4's but this Rattler setup is pretty much easy mode;

[Rattlesnake, PVE]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Pithum C-Type Thermal Dissipation Amplifier
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II

Gecko x1
Bouncer II x2
Berserker II x2
Acolyte II x5

With my skills Bouncers hit to 80k, Rapid Heavy's hit to 60k. The Rapid heavies I found will even hit frigates quite well. Just jump in, MJD to 100 and wait for stuff to come into range or motor back a bit.

Of course you have to adjust your mid slot tank for where you are running missions.

It became too easy and that is why I prefer using the Ishtar or the Gila. Ran a few in a Wolf, but takes too long if there are a lot of ships.

if you are going to mjd might as well use cruise to match the ranges better. Can also throw on a medium booster to rep up any incidental damage you do end up taking and then use your rigs for range/application. ishtar/gila is also too easy imo, and the lower dps leads to sitting around doing nothing which is even more boring.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

guigui lechat
the no fock given
#37 - 2017-05-27 13:25:35 UTC  |  Edited by: guigui lechat
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:


and I'd hardly say op is a newbro, the fit posted has t2 cruise, t2 sentries, faction bcus, and shiny invluns, costs more than nearly all of my fits.


anyone asking for what to expect in L4 is a newbro.


also carrying mtu may or may not be worth it, depending on the mission, and the skills.
using a shiny tool is a way to get safety for newbros. because yes, safety increases a lot with skills AND cost.
Previous page12