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A solution to the Observation Arrays and ratting
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Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#1 - 2017-04-27 17:08:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Zockhandra
Hello friends!

So this is gonna be quite a lengthy post (sorry!). There's been a lot of debate around the topics of the new observation arrays, ideas of what tasks they should perform and how they affect (an already suffering) Blops community.

The general 'for' idea I've seen on the observation platforms, is that they should be something that helps improve the way null-sec capsuleers can manage their systems and the information which they gather.
The general 'against' consensus seems to be that people do not want these array to affect cloaky camping.




Proposal


Observation Arrays:

A structure which requires the system in which it is placed to be a Capital system, or a system with a difficulty index of 5.0(or higher).

This structure (whilst expensive) offers no Tethering services or capital docking bays. Though it can equip basic structure weapons. When deployed in a viable system, this structure actively monitors large Quantum irregularities (particularly those cause by jump drives) but not covert jump drives or any form of bridging.

When within 20km of this structure, you may choose to interface with it's systems. Doing so will render your ship completely immobile, and unable to repair HP of any kind (including that from remote assistance). Once fully interfaced, the pilot can actively track and filter jump drives within a LY radius of the structure, allowing them to see un-authorised jump drives being used in their zone of control. Pilots with Aggression timers of any kind, are unable to interface.

To combat the current ease of escape by ratters (see next post):

Green sites now emit graviton bursts, which randomly occur during spawns, causing your ship to change alignment and speed.

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#2 - 2017-04-27 23:11:37 UTC
Zockhandra wrote:
Once fully interfaced, the pilot can actively track and filter jump drives within a LY radius of the structure, allowing them to see un-authorised jump drives being used in their zone of control.

I don't understand.

Does this mean you can see the location of every capital ship in range, or you can see the jumps ships make?

If it's the former, that's horrendously powerful. Free remote intel.

If it's the latter, isn't that what the cyno filter on the map does already?
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#3 - 2017-04-27 23:17:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Zockhandra
Rawketsled wrote:
Zockhandra wrote:
Once fully interfaced, the pilot can actively track and filter jump drives within a LY radius of the structure, allowing them to see un-authorised jump drives being used in their zone of control.

I don't understand.

Does this mean you can see the location of every capital ship in range, or you can see the jumps ships make?

If it's the former, that's horrendously powerful. Free remote intel.

If it's the latter, isn't that what the cyno filter on the map does already?



Its the latter, essentially it allows you to filter out all friendly jump drives signals, as well as telling you (roughly) where they came from, how many jumped (rounded) and where they ended up.
It's similar to the cyno map option, except it allows you to see how many capitals moved without having a spy or alt to tell you. Would be especially handy, if you live near a JF route.....

The general concept behind this is

"Get a rough idea of where dangers are moving, along the edges of your empire. But never truly know where or what was moved"

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2017-04-27 23:17:31 UTC
Zockhandra wrote:


Green sites now emit graviton bursts, which randomly occur during spawns, causing your ship to change alignment and speed.



Why is speed tanking rats bad? Are you adding anything to make ratting more interesting, or is this purely a change to make it worse?
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#5 - 2017-04-27 23:20:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Zockhandra
Danika Princip wrote:
Zockhandra wrote:


Green sites now emit graviton bursts, which randomly occur during spawns, causing your ship to change alignment and speed.



Why is speed tanking rats bad? Are you adding anything to make ratting more interesting, or is this purely a change to make it worse?



I'm currently writing the next post based on this (its massive). The idea is for the dynamic sites as a suggesstion, we wanted to gather some player feedback.

Essentially the idea is that the higher end sites provide a more challenging enviroment for piloting itself, whilst making it a tad more difficult to do the way too common (perma align and win) combo.

Speed tanking rats isnt bad, always being able to align out on the other hand is.


alot of the basis of this idea is developed on the frustrations of the hunters who prowl new eden (who have found it harder and harder to catch ratters due to citadels, perma-aligns and increasing local numbers), but we also listened to the ratters who were concerned about ratting being too hard.

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#6 - 2017-04-28 19:41:37 UTC
Changing Alignment seems Ok. Changing speed is less OK.

Your purpose is to keep ratters in place long enough for you to land tackle, essentially asking the devs to partially tackle your targets for you, because staying alert and flying right deserves no reward apparently. Changing Alignment does that with a minimal impact on using speed tanking as any large voluntary change in direction would slow the ship anyway, while keeping the speed on an involuntary shift in direction hampers it but does not spell instant death if you happen to be aggroed by a few bazillion rats.

Or you could shift your targeting away from soft targets and start trying to crack defenses by engaging defenders with no need to implement this. Those hunters aren't having a problem finding targets or fight.... They are having problems finding *easy* targets and fights. I guarantee that if they did implement this it would basically cause a reaction like being bumped head on by something massive, which would randomly cripple larger ships from ever going anywhere and hilariously pop smaller ships relying on speed to tank.
Tessa Sage
Long Pig Luncheon Meat
Sending Thots And Players
#7 - 2017-04-28 20:53:44 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Changing Alignment seems Ok. Changing speed is less OK.

Your purpose is to keep ratters in place long enough for you to land tackle, essentially asking the devs to partially tackle your targets for you, because staying alert and flying right deserves no reward apparently....


Just utilize the same mechanics of the Encounter Surveillance System. Warp-disrupt utility radius and other anti-theft features. It's already working great.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#8 - 2017-04-28 21:20:41 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Or you could shift your targeting away from soft targets and start trying to crack defenses by engaging defenders with no need to implement this. Those hunters aren't having a problem finding targets or fight.... They are having problems finding *easy* targets and fights.


IOW, "stop trying to kill PvE farmers, just let them PvE in 100% safety like it's highsec". No thanks.
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#9 - 2017-05-26 01:52:59 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Changing Alignment seems Ok. Changing speed is less OK.

Your purpose is to keep ratters in place long enough for you to land tackle, essentially asking the devs to partially tackle your targets for you, because staying alert and flying right deserves no reward apparently. Changing Alignment does that with a minimal impact on using speed tanking as any large voluntary change in direction would slow the ship anyway, while keeping the speed on an involuntary shift in direction hampers it but does not spell instant death if you happen to be aggroed by a few bazillion rats.

Or you could shift your targeting away from soft targets and start trying to crack defenses by engaging defenders with no need to implement this. Those hunters aren't having a problem finding targets or fight.... They are having problems finding *easy* targets and fights. I guarantee that if they did implement this it would basically cause a reaction like being bumped head on by something massive, which would randomly cripple larger ships from ever going anywhere and hilariously pop smaller ships relying on speed to tank.




Easy kills? Are you aware of how much effort goes into killing a single one of those "alert and rewarded farmers"

- Buy blops
-have hunter
-have time
-gather intel
-find targets 80% of which are safe thanks to intel bots
-find people who are obvs baiting
-finally find target only to realise its cyno fit
-finally get a decent kill, with only a little fuel left, then scan for a rare wormhole back

VERSUS

-buy a ratting ishtar
-undock
-watch local/intel
-make isk


Fair trade right?

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#10 - 2017-05-26 02:58:04 UTC
Zockhandra wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Changing Alignment seems Ok. Changing speed is less OK.

Your purpose is to keep ratters in place long enough for you to land tackle, essentially asking the devs to partially tackle your targets for you, because staying alert and flying right deserves no reward apparently. Changing Alignment does that with a minimal impact on using speed tanking as any large voluntary change in direction would slow the ship anyway, while keeping the speed on an involuntary shift in direction hampers it but does not spell instant death if you happen to be aggroed by a few bazillion rats.

Or you could shift your targeting away from soft targets and start trying to crack defenses by engaging defenders with no need to implement this. Those hunters aren't having a problem finding targets or fight.... They are having problems finding *easy* targets and fights. I guarantee that if they did implement this it would basically cause a reaction like being bumped head on by something massive, which would randomly cripple larger ships from ever going anywhere and hilariously pop smaller ships relying on speed to tank.




Easy kills? Are you aware of how much effort goes into killing a single one of those "alert and rewarded farmers"

- Buy blops
-have hunter
-have time
-gather intel
-find targets 80% of which are safe thanks to intel bots
-find people who are obvs baiting
-finally find target only to realise its cyno fit
-finally get a decent kill, with only a little fuel left, then scan for a rare wormhole back

VERSUS

-buy a ratting ishtar
-undock
-watch local/intel
-make isk


Fair trade right?


Glad to see I was right and you are just another whiny hunter upset because massive player efforts in clearing space and staying alert at all times has thwarted your joyride looking for something shiny to shoot.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#11 - 2017-05-26 08:56:04 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
massive player efforts in clearing space and staying alert at all times

http://i.imgur.com/mXyupD1.gif

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#12 - 2017-05-26 22:41:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Zockhandra
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Zockhandra wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Changing Alignment seems Ok. Changing speed is less OK.

Your purpose is to keep ratters in place long enough for you to land tackle, essentially asking the devs to partially tackle your targets for you, because staying alert and flying right deserves no reward apparently. Changing Alignment does that with a minimal impact on using speed tanking as any large voluntary change in direction would slow the ship anyway, while keeping the speed on an involuntary shift in direction hampers it but does not spell instant death if you happen to be aggroed by a few bazillion rats.

Or you could shift your targeting away from soft targets and start trying to crack defenses by engaging defenders with no need to implement this. Those hunters aren't having a problem finding targets or fight.... They are having problems finding *easy* targets and fights. I guarantee that if they did implement this it would basically cause a reaction like being bumped head on by something massive, which would randomly cripple larger ships from ever going anywhere and hilariously pop smaller ships relying on speed to tank.




Easy kills? Are you aware of how much effort goes into killing a single one of those "alert and rewarded farmers"

- Buy blops
-have hunter
-have time
-gather intel
-find targets 80% of which are safe thanks to intel bots
-find people who are obvs baiting
-finally find target only to realise its cyno fit
-finally get a decent kill, with only a little fuel left, then scan for a rare wormhole back

VERSUS

-buy a ratting ishtar
-undock
-watch local/intel
-make isk


Fair trade right?


Glad to see I was right and you are just another whiny hunter upset because massive player efforts in clearing space and staying alert at all times has thwarted your joyride looking for something shiny to shoot.



Lets humour this accusation for a moment. Lets say you are right and that i'm just having a good rant on the forums, those points mentioned above are still completely true.

I don't see why in a game of risk versus reward, why you should be allowed to safely farm just because you are pointed in the right direction. A result of which nullifies all of the above planning, ISk investment and most importantly the willingness to actually risk

So yes, i suppose in a way i'm just winging about some obscure mechanic of EVE, but at least there is some kind of substance to my claims.

I do agree that a solution, would have to be a small one due to the out roar that would occur from a large change. But facts remain facts, CCP has opened very few hunting opportunities with their latest changes and yet have still VASTLY increased the safety of null-sec using citadels. This has created a huge rift between the balance of 'food-cycle' in EVE.
Hunters can no longer effectively hunt ships, unless they are in (rare) poorly monitored areas.

the current plans for the observatory array threaten this further by "Allowing cloaked players to be detected"

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#13 - 2017-05-27 05:05:42 UTC
Your problem is one of your own making.

I'm not saying you should not hunt PVE ships. However, those ships operate with a defensive strategy of evasion rather than surviving combat through superior combat performance. You should not have any expectation of landing tackle on a ship using multiple accounts watching neighboring systems to provide early warning. That's you trying to solo multiple people on their own home turf and complaining that you lost.

Your goal is to engage soft targets. That's a you problem, as you are attempting to engage them on ground of their choosing where they have carefully prepared the battlefield to their liking.

You often try to conceal this by claiming you can't find fights. That's not true. You can find fights, just not against soft targets. Too bad.