Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Even I gotta scratch my head here. We already have fleets of SBs, and they don't alpha entire fleets.

The weapon you specified, as it is, would require 4 or 5 of your subs at least to match even the small SB fleets I heard of, except your subs would be horrible at coordinating by comparison.

The SBs can make quicker runs, warp out, come back, etc.

The sub, as you described it, would be so slow at going out and coming back, that the fleet would have already left before a second run could be tried.

Give up on this being a fleet craft, solo at best, and then only in very limited situations.

That's why I like the destroyer, it has more social value, being desirable operating with other ships.

You seem fixated on fleets. This is not a fleet item.

It goes out by itself, possibly "behind enemy lines", and disrupt enemy activities.

It is intended to not coordinate, but to harass and be a general thorn in the side of opposing forces.

It would indeed die horribly, if not used with caution, and clever strategy.

Very good, by the numbers, then!

It wouldnt be good solo, cap ships are fueled, they require team work to build, outfit, arm, escort, plot jumps, scout, deliver to front lines and keep them alive and resupply them then scout for any potential threats.

Technically, cap ships include more than this narrow scope. Even the Orca is technically considered a cap ship, although the sub's needs for cyno's alone make it more high maintenance.
It would require support. The amount, as compared to a regular cap ship, is trivial.
Fueled: Yes, and that covops supply chain answers the call needed here.
Building and arming: The actual building would indeed require a corp / alliance. Not necessarily the one to deploy it, as cap sales are a proven market.
Escort: this is one cap ship that would specifically not need an escort. It should normally live at safe spots, unfindable. This ship is not at risk so long as it is not trying to attack someone, barring pilot stupidity.
Plot jumps: granted, just like any cap that is also jump dependent.
Scout: absolutely not. The cyno / covert cyno should be careful, but outside of that bottleneck, the sub should be safe in unscouted territory.
Deliver to front lines and keep alive: With the help of a cyno, this ship is entirely self reliant otherwise.
Resupply: This is the awesome part. The black ops ship and cloaky transports can be used for this, giving them a whole new support value. In some cases, pilots will train for these as a result of wanting to support a sub.
Scout for any potential threats: Although theoretically unnecessary, since the sub could eventually find it's own targets, a probe ship could help spot for the sub more easily, finding choice targets. Defense is always the responsibility of the sub.

Fleet intel would hound this ship to death as well, to the point that you wouldnt be able to effectively deploy this ship, cyno lite offs even covert ones are tracked by fleet intel though a bit slower. Pilots of this ship will be specifically tracked and monitored and recorded.

All this excitement and activity surrounding the sub, I can see the CCP devs high fiving each other over in Iceland already.
Skilled and cautious pilots will not be vulnerable, to the point of being doomed. At best, alliances will make the hunting by the sub difficult.
Hunting for the sub? That game will be the sub captain's to lose, as any success must at some level be this captain's failure first.

Then there is the ultimate problem this ship has.

Which is what is problem this ship going to fix?
There is no covert ship useful outside of a fleet. Either they are spotting or scouting for someone better able to deliver the damage, or they themselves are needed in greater numbers to compensate for their low damage profiles.

Once again numeration of this ship will cause problems once again. They are a liability to fleets and alliances as well costing precious allaince logistics and support the amount of pilots its goign to require to get these ships deployed would be too great as well as smart people would figure out that while you have pilots stuck in these ships they can go into your systems and smash your infastructure inifinite costing far more damage than a few lost hulks this ship might kill.

This ship will never operate except as a solo entity in the field. It is just too impractical for this tactic type. And as to it's being a drain on system defenses for the corp / alliance it belongs to, you greatly overestimate it's needs.

Heck, a pilot with two friends could do the whole thing. (One to cyno, one to black ops, and one to swap between sub and a cloaky transport.) (the transport can drop off items at prearranged spots, swap to the sub and grab them before a prober has a chance to locate the can)

Thank you for the opportunity to clarify details, Nova Fox!

Ya, no. Just GTFO. k, thnx, bai.

...

Let me say one thing

Black Ops Battleship

Why does nobody fly the damn thing?

I must agree with this.

Black Ops was pigeon holed because of it's circumstances.

In short:
It cannot warp cloaked. (Not a true covops)
It is still less powerful than it's T1 version, when both set up to fight.
It costs over 600 million isk.

These factors make it a liability in any function beyond the covert jump bridge, and reduce it's value to being only good for this.

The Nova Fox response section:

The bottom point is that this ship has a extremly bad angle of approach of solutions and problems and to be frankly the cloaked shields is not only gimmiky it disenfranchises any armor tanking pilot as well. The wepaon system is only going to be found one one ship ever. It just has flaw after flaw after flaw.
The concept of a tank on this ship... just no. The pilot can wear a rabbit's foot if they think it will help, but this ship is dead in the water if it's cloak is beaten. Only luck would be likely to save it then.

As for the weapon system, it is on the SB currently. Due to bomb design details, the sub will need to match ammunition so all launchers have the same type, or like a small SB squad, the first bomb to go off will destroy the ones following it.

And if you want it as a eve defined cap ship there are several key features you need to take issues up with in order to make it such.

The biggest one is that capitol ships are supposed to be in thier own field of combat, and shouldnt meddle with the affairs of non capitols as severly as the AOE titan did back in the day before they nerfed that into oblivion. Whole reason why they're trying to nerf Titans again as they're managing to get XL gun strikes on CRUISERS.

I think I see where you are coming from, but cap ships are not as limited as you are suggesting. You must already know cap ships include freighters, jump freighters, rorquals and orcas. Not just the traditional fleet fighting ships.

This ship, initially unique in it's own category, will have little to do with the other types. Heck, one does not expect to find the freighters or indy caps in a combat fleet either.
You may never see these ships in the game. The real question will be, will you have a reason to worry about them being in your system...

Im sorry but I am looking at a this idea is like looking at a chess board with two kings on it being played out by two equally skilled masters.

The ship is deadly capable of killing any other chess peice within oppertunity but in its current interation only a pawn can kill it and no other peice can.

How horrible would chess be if the entire board had such rules? queens can only be slain by bishops. Bishops by rooks, rooks by pawns? You see where this is going? This is bad game design.

According to the 2008 to now crime watch, Hulks have managed to kill battlecruisers clearly not a case of the above.

This ship is not only unbalanced, its nearly its useless you would not do any npc activity in a system with one of these things parked in it. Moving the peice means they just either re-move the activity or setup a damn trap for it when they make the bad move. Bottom line as it stands how this ship as a module pinanta.

Forget the destroyer part we're here to make one ship not two.

The current destroyers are not designed for this sort of task either.

No I am more inferring that you are limiting to which ships can kill this 'sub' of yours.

+0.5

I support this idea, but it has problems.

Suggestion: Make every action damage the cloak a tiny bit. Be it firing weapons, activating modules, going to warp, targeting things, etc. And make it an alternative to Black Ops, without actually being a replacement. Or even better, make it a Tech III Subsystem.