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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Challenging maleficars

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Arrendis
TK Corp
#21 - 2017-05-26 18:16:37 UTC
ValentinaDLM wrote:
CVA fight in the milita, and defend Providence setting people like me red and shooting us.


Defending space they currently control does not mean they're defending it for the Empire. It means they're defending it for themselves.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#22 - 2017-05-26 18:19:17 UTC
The real issue alluded to in this entire thread (and others) goes back a number of years, and primarily revolves around faith and Amarr culture and laws.

Providence has lacked solid, central and consistent spiritual guidance for some time, and a number of its corporations have allowed members to get away with things that SFRIM, PIE and many other loyalist organisations would not have hesitated to take action over. It's what happens when your organisation grows beyond the task of one man to manage, so I cannot say I don't expect there to be issues, but it is true that these incidents were not always followed up on as swiftly as they should have been.

Operation Deliverance (the part about actually applying the Faith and Laws of the Empire, not just holding the space) has, for the most part, had to be brought kicking and screaming to the fore-front once more. The Conclave of Providence was an effort to start addressing this, and its work will be continued and expanded upon by the Empyrean Council. It has not been without growing pains, but I am confident it will see success with Principle Jeds at the helm.

Providence needs a lot of education and work for its myriad of pilots, from a diverse set of backgrounds, and organisations to get back to that core root. So, in a sense, it can be argued it lost part of its way. It (the conceptual/generalisation 'it') stumbled along the path a little and needs a helping hand to get it back on track again. As a devoted Amarrian and a 'Provident' myself, I'm determined to assist there where I can.

To any Providence/CVA members reading, take this as honest and open advice given out of love for one's brothers and sisters of the faith, not a scolding. It's also meant as a means of ending the idle gossip from the ill informed, while not trying to cover up the obvious history of flaws and failings known to all here.

As for the explicit issue of Lord Vaari's personal status with CVA, that is an issue already addressed upon by CVA's diplomats on this very forum that neither I nor SFRIM will make public comment on.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#23 - 2017-05-26 18:24:13 UTC
To make it absolutely clear as well, is Providence, and as part of that coalition CVA, Amarr Loyal? Yes.

The fact that its leadership has supported the efforts to re-establish religious education, and to devolve matters on that to an eager pilot base, demonstrates that loyalty is still true even if a tiny number of malcontents spout nonsense in local communications.

The issue is more of bringing it into line with the very culture and finer details of the faith they are loyal to, an issue more to do with isolation in null security and spiritual neglect by clergy then anything else.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#24 - 2017-05-26 18:37:48 UTC
Don't take me wrong, but these assurances of CVA's loyalty to the faith would be more believable if they came from the CVA.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#25 - 2017-05-26 18:40:51 UTC
Been watching CVA for too long to take even their own claims as such. There's barely lipservice going on these days from Providence, and even that is so half-hearted that blind people could see through it. They're about as Amarr loyal as I am.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#26 - 2017-05-26 18:44:56 UTC
I admit I've been wondering lately if there's any point anymore in EM being on CVA KOS list. I mean, we are not in Provi, we are NRDS, CVA does not really give a damn about loyalists in general (on either side). It's just history.

Not that I entertain the notion it's history people will easily get over. But still.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#27 - 2017-05-26 18:46:58 UTC
Then my point of why I don't bother keeping an open update here of the goings on on the Operation Deliverance front is proven.

There's nothing to gain from expending the energy and effort of making a log here of the Council's work, the various initiatives started or the like (of which there are many, and by more then just CVA's hands) because the feedback from it would be about as useful to us as rubbing some crystals together and seeing what mysteries that will reveal.

You could hear it from me, you could hear it from CVA, you could hear it even from APOC, YF, -7- or the myriad of other organisations, each with their own formal representatives working together, and if you still won't believe it, well... That's a fair one, guv.

At the least I tried.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#28 - 2017-05-26 18:52:14 UTC
Just because Miz says she will not believe it in any case, and I remain skeptical of anyone but CVA making announcements of loyalty for the CVA, you decide there's no point in making updates about a potentially rather important development (or lack there-of) of an alliance with at least former ties to the nation states?

Suit yourself, but to me that sounds a rather extreme reaction.

I'd be interested to hear more about this Operation Deliverance, for sure. I am sure you can tell your point of view on it without making strong claims on CVA's behalf? It sounds like it would deserve its own thread.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#29 - 2017-05-26 18:52:21 UTC
Utari, would you say Mercenary Coalition is loyal to the Tribes? I can assure you it's not, even though I can point to myself and some others as such. CVA and Providence is much the same and you know it. That you have sufficient numbers that the exact same loyalist percentage translates into big enough numbers for an 'Operation Deliverance' does not make CVA nor Providence Amarr loyal anymore.
Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy
#30 - 2017-05-26 19:36:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaari
Utari Onzo wrote:
To make it absolutely clear as well, is Providence, and as part of that coalition CVA, Amarr Loyal? Yes.

The fact that its leadership has supported the efforts to re-establish religious education, and to devolve matters on that to an eager pilot base, demonstrates that loyalty is still true even if a tiny number of malcontents spout nonsense in local communications.

The issue is more of bringing it into line with the very culture and finer details of the faith they are loyal to, an issue more to do with isolation in null security and spiritual neglect by clergy then anything else.


Since when CVA's leaders have supported religious education? Must be after I was made of KOS for demanding it few weeks ago and was barred access to the coalition forums. It is rather good ban, for shortly after that friend from Loyalist ranks told me that CVA has used my API-account to SPY ON ME. If i ever be non kos in Providence, surely as there is Heaven and Hell i wont use CVA's forum.

Fear the God and honor the Empress!

-House Valius battle shout.
Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy
#31 - 2017-05-26 19:39:44 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
I admit I've been wondering lately if there's any point anymore in EM being on CVA KOS list. I mean, we are not in Provi, we are NRDS, CVA does not really give a damn about loyalists in general (on either side). It's just history.

Not that I entertain the notion it's history people will easily get over. But still.


Missus Rhiannon, I will be needing your alliance director name. NRDS business.

Fear the God and honor the Empress!

-House Valius battle shout.
Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy
#32 - 2017-05-26 19:43:42 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:


You could hear it from me, you could hear it from CVA, you could hear it even from APOC, YF, -7- or the myriad of other organisations, each with their own formal representatives working together, and if you still won't believe it, well... That's a fair one, guv.

At the least I tried.



You could check the Conclave of Providence papers again. It dictates clearly that religious matters are worked with Imperial Pharmacy, which basicly means me. I still wait Newly formed (if it is formed) Empyrean Council of Providence to contact me so we can get to work.

Fear the God and honor the Empress!

-House Valius battle shout.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#33 - 2017-05-26 19:51:03 UTC
Vaari wrote:
Utari Onzo wrote:
To make it absolutely clear as well, is Providence, and as part of that coalition CVA, Amarr Loyal? Yes.

The fact that its leadership has supported the efforts to re-establish religious education, and to devolve matters on that to an eager pilot base, demonstrates that loyalty is still true even if a tiny number of malcontents spout nonsense in local communications.

The issue is more of bringing it into line with the very culture and finer details of the faith they are loyal to, an issue more to do with isolation in null security and spiritual neglect by clergy then anything else.


Since when CVA's leaders have supported religious education? Must be after I was made of KOS for demanding it few weeks ago and was barred access to the coalition forums. It is rather good ban, for shortly after that friend from Loyalist ranks told me that CVA has used my API-account to SPY ON ME. If i ever be non kos in Providence, surely as there is Heaven and Hell i wont use CVA's forum.


Since the Magistrate empowered the Theology Institute to exist, and also empowered the Council to try individuals for heresy. As flagging a start as it has had, my Lord, these are basic immutable facts that the Magistrate is indeed making something of it.

Once again, I am not at liberty to discuss the issues surrounding your KoS status or your leadership application for the Institute, my Lord. I wish you Gods blessings in your endevours to resolving the issue.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy
#34 - 2017-05-26 19:55:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaari
Utari Onzo wrote:
Vaari wrote:
Utari Onzo wrote:
To make it absolutely clear as well, is Providence, and as part of that coalition CVA, Amarr Loyal? Yes.

The fact that its leadership has supported the efforts to re-establish religious education, and to devolve matters on that to an eager pilot base, demonstrates that loyalty is still true even if a tiny number of malcontents spout nonsense in local communications.

The issue is more of bringing it into line with the very culture and finer details of the faith they are loyal to, an issue more to do with isolation in null security and spiritual neglect by clergy then anything else.


Since when CVA's leaders have supported religious education? Must be after I was made of KOS for demanding it few weeks ago and was barred access to the coalition forums. It is rather good ban, for shortly after that friend from Loyalist ranks told me that CVA has used my API-account to SPY ON ME. If i ever be non kos in Providence, surely as there is Heaven and Hell i wont use CVA's forum.


Since the Magistrate empowered the Theology Institute to exist, and also empowered the Council to try individuals for heresy. As flagging a start as it has had, my Lord, these are basic immutable facts that the Magistrate is indeed making something of it.

Once again, I am not at liberty to discuss the issues surrounding your KoS status or your leadership application for the Institute, my Lord. I wish you Gods blessings in your endevours to resolving the issue.


Your KOS admin, the Xhjfx the Abomination pretty much played his strongest card in existence against me by making me permanent kos to Providence, I see little ways to resolve the issue.

What he failed to see was overwhelming support of my cause as a loyalist who struggles against disloyalty.

Fear the God and honor the Empress!

-House Valius battle shout.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#35 - 2017-05-26 20:40:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Vaari wrote:
Missus Rhiannon, I will be needing your alliance director name. NRDS business.

Debes Sparre.

EDITed to add: wouldn't hold my breath while waiting for him to talk to a Mary preacher though. Might want to consider sending someone less controversial.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#36 - 2017-05-26 20:43:52 UTC
Vaari wrote:

Your KOS admin, the Xhjfx the Abomination pretty much played his strongest card in existence against me by making me permanent kos to Providence, I see little ways to resolve the issue.

What he failed to see was overwhelming support of my cause as a loyalist who struggles against disloyalty.


See, now that reads like a whole heap of 'CVA can't be loyal to Amarr because they don't like meeeeeee!!' And that's just a load of crap. I don't believe for a moment that they are loyal in more than just a nominal 'uh-huh, sure, whatever' way, but it's pretty clear your case against CVA being loyal is entirely based on the legal principle of 'ow! my butt!'
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#37 - 2017-05-26 20:47:31 UTC
Ah, the old In Principae Dolium Nocere legal strategy. It's a bold move, let's see if it pays off.
Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#38 - 2017-05-26 20:55:58 UTC
ValentinaDLM wrote:
CVA fight in the milita, and defend Providence setting people like me red and shooting us. That might not seem like much to some, but I haven't seen Vaari on the battlefield, unless that battlefield is IGS, but I see CVA in space all the time.. Their actions seem consistent with opposing people like myself, that is people who wish the Empire and it's loyalists harm.


Yes, many CVA actively fight on the front lines for Amarr in the war against the Matari.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Arrendis
TK Corp
#39 - 2017-05-26 21:00:20 UTC
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:
Yes, many CVA actively fight on the front lines for the money.


FTFY.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#40 - 2017-05-26 21:01:26 UTC
Sheeeit, we're at war? Why didn't someone tell me?