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Drone boats

Author
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-01-23 14:46:27 UTC
Asudem wrote:
I would recommend Domi or even Rattlesnake. But I think sentries are the worst drones of all for missions. The range is limited, they cannot move and they have a horrbible tracking... I am using Ogre/Berserker or Hobgoblin depending on the enemy and I have 2 Drone links on my Rattlesnake so I can kill NPCs in a range long befor the sentries can hit anything (85km) like in Blockade to blitz that mission.


Then you are doing it wrong.

Before I could even use T2 sentries, I was using faction ones. Combined with 2 omni's I was instapopping frigates, 2-3 shotting Cruisers/BC's and making quick work of battleships. This was out to a range of 100km using wardens.

With 2 omni's Fed navy Gardes would track down to cruisers at 10,000m fine. Honestly it was rare to have anything make it that close.

This was about 4 months ago, the last time I ran a mission, and I was probably at around 8-9mil SP total. Mostly in drones/tank. I haven't run a mission since getting T2 sentries and heavies, but my sentry ishtar rocks plexes.

The ONLY downside IMO with sentries is their immobility. But most LVL 4's I did not have a problem. A domi is slow enough (even with an AB) that I would generally decline missions with lots of movement (had 3 agents in system). The few that I would run with movement I would switch to heavies and let them loose as I slow boated to the next gate.

Sentries + Ishtar hasn't been an issue. I can leave them behind and pick them up quickly in a dual prop ishtar. Probably faster than my Heavies would take to fly back to me.
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-01-23 15:32:45 UTC
Asudem wrote:
[quote=zatazon]I would recommend Domi or even Rattlesnake. But I think sentries are the worst drones of all for missions. The range is limited, they cannot move and they have a horrbible tracking... I am using Ogre/Berserker or Hobgoblin depending on the enemy and I have 2 Drone links on my Rattlesnake so I can kill NPCs in a range long befor the sentries can hit anything (85km) like in Blockade to blitz that mission.



Just to underscore the point - you are doing it wrong.

I fly a Navy Domi which is fitted for drones (as my gunnery skills are a joke). It basically amounts to a sphere of death with 108 km radius - 2 sets of sentries (gardes and either bouncers or wardens depending on damage type needed) and one set of heavies (berserkers - only some of the Matar ships are big enough and get close enough to justify using them over sentries) along with one set of light drones (you gotta love the 400 m3 drone bay of the Navy Domi) and you are setup for success.

The immobility of the sentries is basically inconsequential when you can "reach out and touch" basically anything in the pocket where you land (with very very few exceptions).

There are only two times when you are going to use heavies over sentries:

1) When you get some of the faster matar battleships orbiting up close (usually this is the named mission guys - general battleships are not really an issue for sentries) -> Berserkers
2) When you have an annoying mission where you have to burn a fair distance to a gate - then you let heavies do the work while you burn to the gate.


Asudem
Black Spear.
#23 - 2012-01-23 15:40:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Asudem
Ok, than I failed the whole time. And it makes sence. Last time I used T1 Garde was with my Thanatos (about 13 drones). I recognized that the drones barely kill any NPC even beltrats. I never tried omnis for better tracking and range. Thanks for proving me wrong. Any idea how I could keep up my Omni-Tanked Rattlesnake but adding 2 Fed Navy Omnis to it? I am using a passive tank, maybe I have to switch to active tanking, I guess.
Asudem
Black Spear.
#24 - 2012-01-23 16:56:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Asudem
Never mind my fitting request. EFT ftw.^^

*EDIT*
The lack of mobility is a huge contra I still see in sentries. Missions like Dread Pirate Scarlet, Worlds Collide, The Assault, Silence the Informant ect. require some kiilometers to move. And that could end up in a leathal way if the DPS gets too high.
Rustica Puella
Ante Litteram
#25 - 2012-01-23 17:17:59 UTC
in mission with alot of battleships i warp in a dominix and assign sentries to my tengu, i use this fit

drone link augmentor II
drone link augmentor I x2 (121km drone control range with my skills)
improved cloak
medium remote armor repper
civilian gun

3 omidirectional tracking link II
100mn mwd
cap recharger II

3 capacitor power relay II
LAR II
3 specific mission hardeners II

2 large sentry drone damage augmentor

5x Curator II (87km optimal+24km falloff)
5x Garde II (50km+12km)
5X Warden II (125km+30km)

Gardes do 500+dps with gallente bs lvl4 with quite decent tracking, if your other char uses a missile boat you'll find your missiles consumption drastically reduced, in some lvl4s i use half the missiles than when i run my tengu alone. The fit is cap stable with hardeners and repper on and you can use the mwd to quick reach far gates (970 m/s speed), for missions with triggered spawns you can quick return sentries and cloak while the other ship kills the trigger and get aggro from new npcs or just tank them focussing the dps on who hits the domi
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-01-23 17:27:26 UTC
Asudem wrote:
*EDIT*
The lack of mobility is a huge contra I still see in sentries. Missions like Dread Pirate Scarlet, Worlds Collide, The Assault, Silence the Informant ect. require some kiilometers to move. And that could end up in a leathal way if the DPS gets too high.



Amazingly it takes almost no time to switch out drones depending on missions. As I said above I will still use heavies in missions that require significant movement.

The converse however is that there are 2 specific times (maybe more, but these are 2 times i can think of on the top of my head) where the immobility of sentries is an asset.

1. Missions that require no movement. If memory serves, I had far more LVL 4 missions that require no movement than do. And a number of the missions that require movement I would skip anyhow, as I would have to refit for a prop mod as well (lazy).

2. Missions where drone proximity is an aggro trigger. Again, as I mentioned above I haven't run missions in months. But i do recall a number of missions where your drones will aggro additional groups if they get to close. Also many times those missions the aggro will be on the drones. Nothing worse than sending out your drones 30km away to kill group 1, only to have group 2 aggro your drones. Now you either have to let them die, or waste time recalling and re-deploying. Sentries in this case can reach out and kill without getting in proximity aggro range.

Bottom line, if you are a serious drone pilot you will want/need both. But even then I use sentries far more than heavies. Probably at least 80/20.

Also, yes t1 sentries stink. Hence the reason i used faction while I trained for T2. Well worth the investment (which I got back when i sold them).
Asudem
Black Spear.
#27 - 2012-01-23 17:46:40 UTC
@ Derath Ellecon

1. The L4 missions I mentionned are the most worthy to run because you can get the also mentioned up to 50 mil ISK with those. Since the NPCs are bouncing away from static objects instead of just flying through them (thanks CCP for this ******** feature) it feels like they need hours to get in drone control range and even much longer to get in Garde range. Its even much worse if the NPCs stuck in that objects. Sometimes you have to move up to 30 km to compromise it...

2. Thats why I use the Rattlesnake. Its tanking ability for PVE is just incredible and you dont have to refit it. And it also has 50% speed bonus for cruise missiles, so I can make stage aggro with it and then let the dronies do the rest. Heavies are quite good tanked for drones, so they wont break that easy.

Im thinking about using T2 drone navis instead of sentries. 2 or those mods doubles the speed of my heavies. They already kill heavy tanked NPC battleships in a couple of seconds, so the speed is the only thing they are lacking.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#28 - 2012-01-23 18:14:13 UTC
Asudem wrote:
2. Thats why I use the Rattlesnake. Its tanking ability for PVE is just incredible and you dont have to refit it. And it also has 50% speed bonus for cruise missiles, so I can make stage aggro with it and then let the dronies do the rest. Heavies are quite good tanked for drones, so they wont break that easy.


Keep tanking those L4s to death. Eventually you will, in fact, complete them....

Or to drop the attitude, yes, this is a valid use for a Rattlesnake. It has a silly tank and if afking missions is your thing, it can take full advantage of that to very slowly coast through any mission you throw at it. Unfortunately, it isn't a very ganky boat nomatter what you do with it, so go ahead and skip the sentries on it. However, sentries will always make more sense if you're going for a ganky fit -- such as a shield tanked nDomi. Their ability to start applying damage instantly would make up for travel time on heavies under these conditions even without the SDA II you really ought to be slapping on there.

Asudem wrote:
Im thinking about using T2 drone navis instead of sentries. 2 or those mods doubles the speed of my heavies. They already kill heavy tanked NPC battleships in a couple of seconds, so the speed is the only thing they are lacking.


70% increase. Not quite a doubling. But yeah, it would help.
Asudem
Black Spear.
#29 - 2012-01-23 19:10:42 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
70% increase. Not quite a doubling. But yeah, it would help.


Sorry, my fault. I refered to the basic speed of T2 Ogre. + Skill it would be 1774 m/s instead of 840.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-01-23 19:24:12 UTC
Asudem wrote:
@ Derath Ellecon

1. The L4 missions I mentionned are the most worthy to run because you can get the also mentioned up to 50 mil ISK with those. Since the NPCs are bouncing away from static objects instead of just flying through them (thanks CCP for this ******** feature) it feels like they need hours to get in drone control range and even much longer to get in Garde range. Its even much worse if the NPCs stuck in that objects. Sometimes you have to move up to 30 km to compromise it...


Sure, which is why i said already, for the missions that make sense I will pull out a set of sentries and replace with heavies. That's the nice thing about drone boats. It's not a ship refit, just drag out one type, put in another.

And you keep talking Gardes. Yes Gardes have the shortest range. With my skills and 2 omni's wardens have an optimal of 110km as an example. I don't have to move to get my sentries into optimal. I always pack gardes (best close up tracking) and mission specific sentries, depending on range and optimal damage type.

For hardcore movement missions, swap omni's for navis and swap to heavies. I don't have to choose one or the other exclusively.

Asudem wrote:
2. Thats why I use the Rattlesnake. Its tanking ability for PVE is just incredible and you dont have to refit it. And it also has 50% speed bonus for cruise missiles, so I can make stage aggro with it and then let the dronies do the rest. Heavies are quite good tanked for drones, so they wont break that easy.

Im thinking about using T2 drone navis instead of sentries. 2 or those mods doubles the speed of my heavies. They already kill heavy tanked NPC battleships in a couple of seconds, so the speed is the only thing they are lacking.


If you are using a Rattler, you aren't going for max speed anyhow. It is known as an amazing AFK ship (in which case heavies are easier to afk) but not for ultimate gank speed.

With the exception of high movement missions, I'd put my rail fit, 2x sentry rig (20% extra damage) sentry domi up against your Rattler anyday.

Either way. The main point is, drone boats you have the flexibility to use all kinds of cool drones. I use every drone option I can. But in general I use Sentries more.
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#31 - 2012-01-23 21:14:03 UTC
Well, I don't think you can get a cheaper mission gank ship then a Domi:

[Dominix, L4 sansha / blood missions]
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Imperial Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Armor EM Hardener
Damage Control II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

350mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
[empty rig slot]


Ogre II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Garde II x5
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