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So The BR Sotiyos

Author
Rhaegon Aesir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2017-05-21 04:34:09 UTC
Lothros Andastar wrote:
Bring your supers with bomb fighters to kill them all. Or bring a domi fleet with Warrior II's


I mean they already tried 20+ Rattlesnakes with logi, and they got absolutely rekt by the blood raiders...and with the escalations, somehow I doubt supers would fare much better.
Cade Windstalker
#22 - 2017-05-21 05:18:54 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Working as intended. CCP designed a PVE site that anybody could attempt to run. It's accessible content for everyone. Not just players like me with 200m+ SP and ten years experience playing the game. It doesn't require 250+ Machariels. It doesn't require Capitals or Supercapitals. Literally anyone can do this site. And that is a great thing. Especially once the other pirate factions start putting up their own Sotiyos and there are potentially 5 of these sites up at the same time.


Normally I'd agree, but we're talking about something that drops Faction Capital BPCs. It sorta feels like the investment required for this should be a bit more than a blob of speed tanked Frigates worth less than a few blinged out mission battleships.

It's not so much that someone beat it, it's that they beat it in a way that's really hard to drop on from a PvP perspective, and really really cheap compared to the rewards.

Rhaegon Aesir wrote:
Lothros Andastar wrote:
Bring your supers with bomb fighters to kill them all. Or bring a domi fleet with Warrior II's


I mean they already tried 20+ Rattlesnakes with logi, and they got absolutely rekt by the blood raiders...and with the escalations, somehow I doubt supers would fare much better.


Anyone who played around with these things on the test server could have told you that fleet was going to get rolled in hilarious fashion. They didn't have nearly enough Logi or DPS and the minimum spawn for the Blood Raiders seems to be at least a few dozen cruisers plus Logi and EWar ships.

Dropping capitals actually works *really* well because the Blood Raider capitals spit right out of the Sotiyo and aren't all that effective. Since there's no Supers that they can drop a Titan seems to chew through the dreads pretty quick.
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2017-05-21 05:51:55 UTC
They've tried to make an EVE raid. Again.

Even in games centered around raiding, most of the playerbase never touched the very top-level raids. If you try to make these about on the difficulty level of those kinds of raids and succeed, most of the playerbase just won't touch them after they figure out they're insanely difficult. Then there's the other problem with difficult content in EVE: it requires you to fit a very certain way, which means anyone wanting to mess with you has a pretty good idea of your fit.

Leaving a bunch of forces sitting around with nothing to do but wait for the site team to finish is... yaaaaaawn. I guess there are sigs and anoms in the surrounding systems to run?

Tangent: maybe reducing the tank checks in higher DED complexes would make the fits of the ships running them a little less predictable. Lower "difficulty" PvE means more choice in how you approach it: do you go maximum efficiency, or do you want to bring a surprise for the guy who decided it was a good idea to mess with you in that site you were running?

A signature :o

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#24 - 2017-05-21 06:06:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Lothros Andastar wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
NPCs are best used for setting the stage for players to interact.


This and the new BR sites do just this. The real challenge isn't beating the rats it's beating the other groups after the same prize

I doubt that. If these shipyards can get farmed by Punishers, there's no incentive for someone else to fight that. Similar as Entosis stuff it's just not worth it.

Bring your supers with bomb fighters to kill them all. Or bring a domi fleet with Warrior II's

Supers with bomb fighters are useless against a fleet of hundreds of Punishers orbiting the structure. Not to mention that the punisher fleet can just kill the supers one after another. And not to mention that bringing supers deep into any territory that is held by a big local group is not possible. Roll Same goes for a Dominix fleet. It's not possible, it's not fun and not worth it.

And before someone calls me pessimist: This is the realist speaking, not the pessimist. CONDI, for instance, drops dozens of supers, titans, carriers and fax on ceptor fleets. How do you think they will respond to a super or Dominix fleet slowboating towards that structure? Not that CCP can do something about this, but engaging a Punisher fleet with supers or even a Dominix fleet deep in enemy territory is simply not feasible. Even if you very generously assumed that your fleet drove away the Punishers, you are then stuck there either tackled by the NPC or shooting the structure for another 30 minutes to get the "loot that is worth it". 30 minutes are a long time deep in enemy territory.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Hexakosioi Hexekontahex
Doomheim
#25 - 2017-05-24 13:52:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Hexakosioi Hexekontahex
I would like to be able to fight on the side of the Blood Raiders, so that NPC understands that I'm on their side.
̶A̶n̶d̶,̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶t̶i̶m̶e̶,̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶d̶e̶s̶i̶r̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶N̶P̶C̶ ̶f̶l̶e̶e̶t̶ ̶h̶e̶l̶p̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶l̶o̶g̶i̶s̶t̶i̶c̶ ̶s̶h̶i̶p̶s̶ (#googletranslateoverload (c) CCP Leeloo Big smile)
In fact, it would be pretty awesome if NPCs would even assist me, by repping my ship for example!
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2017-05-24 16:47:31 UTC
To me, the simple solution would be a dynamic response to current conditions. Computational restrictions aside, of course.

For example, from the perspective of the AI:

I'm losing subcaps to T1 frigates. They are kiting me. My counter-kiting mechanics are carriers engaging the kitey ships.

I'm losing fighters. My counter is HAW dreads.

I'm losing carriers, they're taking damage from dreadnoughts. My counter-dread mechanic is dreadnoughts engaging their dreadnoughts.

I'm losing battleships to mixed subcaps. They're kiting. My counter-kiting mechanic is to launch a wave of tackle ships and try to close in.

So on and so forth. Heck, you could even have the BR Sotiyo "probing" the enemy fleets (abstracted concept... you'd see probes, but it would just give their tackle/brawl ships a warp-in on your kiting fleet a few seconds after you see the probes).

You start with your T1 frigate kite cancer, which works great until they launch carriers or sniper-fit battleships. At which point, you either warp off and reship or ideally have a second squad warp in with guns to kill fighters or brawl the battleships.

The AI responds to your battleship brawling by launching tackle ships and pulling range - now your kitey cancer needs to swap over and tackle their tackle so you can keep brawling range on them.

Or if it launches fighters and you start sniping their fighters, it launches HAW dreads. Etc.

~~

In this regard, no single tactic will ever work. Yes, you will have a tactic that is effective for a time. But over time the AI will respond with a counter-mechanic. Which means you must adjust accordingly. This game is very much rock paper scissors, and there are clear counters to any single choice made by a player fleet... just as there are clear counters to every choice made by the AI.
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2017-05-25 11:50:12 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
to be fair considering only one of these exist at a time it will only be farmed. there are not going to be casual groups going after them


That's my main issue with them, they provide nothing except a chance at a item for huge corps to farm in limited numbers.
Even if there's only one of them it's not something 99.9% of people will ever see. Kind of just a pointless update for the top .01% that wasted time and resources.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#28 - 2017-05-25 16:22:09 UTC
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
to be fair considering only one of these exist at a time it will only be farmed. there are not going to be casual groups going after them


That's my main issue with them, they provide nothing except a chance at a item for huge corps to farm in limited numbers.
Even if there's only one of them it's not something 99.9% of people will ever see. Kind of just a pointless update for the top .01% that wasted time and resources.


While right now the thing might be rather limited, CCP has said they can now use this code to create new PvE stuff more accessible to everyone. They could for example make those replace current anomalies with a different scaling ratio. The current citadel sites are essentially the first implementation of their new PvE tool so they don't have to create everything from scratch every time they want to create some PvE content.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#29 - 2017-05-25 16:43:50 UTC
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
to be fair considering only one of these exist at a time it will only be farmed. there are not going to be casual groups going after them


That's my main issue with them, they provide nothing except a chance at a item for huge corps to farm in limited numbers.
Even if there's only one of them it's not something 99.9% of people will ever see. Kind of just a pointless update for the top .01% that wasted time and resources.



.... they technically have the potential to be more common than the sansha super.


like all things in eve we come back to "it would be made better without incursions"
Fek Mercer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2017-05-26 11:31:33 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:

There's no logical proof...


Actually, I think there is. Here's another thought experiment:

Lets say ccp plugs the gap of an exploit, like speedtanking while applying damage, or using waves of fighters from afar, or dogpiling the thing with long range titans, etc. Every time the players find an exploit, ccp plugs it in such a way that makes it a challenging fight again.

If we assume that players always find an exploit, then by the above logic there are an infinite number or ways to exploit the sotiyo. This is impossible, ergo the statement that "players can always find an exploit" is false.



The first thought that comes to mind is in the first part, that assumes ccp can always find a plug for an exploit, or always find one that doesn't make the sotiyo go from "challenge" to "almost unbeatable." The way to prove me wrong in this aspect would be to come up with a sound scenario that is impossible to fix without breaching the above conditions.
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