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Idea: Rage Rolling
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Rhaegon Aesir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2017-05-23 22:38:26 UTC
Ok, so here's the thing. Wormhole corps NEED rolling, because that's how we find things to shoot. We can't just go "Oh let's go visit Hard Knocks staging today" like you nullsec players do. Rolling is an integral part of wormhole life and if you make it more difficult, you make finding content more difficult. This is bad.

Secondly, wormholes are RANDOM, have MASS LIMITS, and MASS RESTRICTIONS. CCP added jump fatigue to prevent giant capital blobs from reaching any and all of New eden. The absolute largest wormholes can only take 3-4 capitals before collapsing, and no supers or titans. Please, explain to me how these two scenarios are even remotely comparable.

Oh, and since they are random, you cannot simply choose your destination like with a cyno. Those t3s that you mentioned, maybe they want to go to goon space. While their friends set off via gate or bridge, the wormhole fleet spends an entire day rolling through all 3000+ nullsec systems, but never actually finds a connection to goon space. Again, how are these situations comparable?

Oh, and you're in NC. You're not a wormholer. I don't care if you have an alt in a hole with a null static, or if you daytrip. You don't spend the majority of your time in w-space, and your asking for a nerf to wormhole space that benefits nullsec. You are not a wormholer so stop trying to make changes to our home space, thank you.
Kassimila
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2017-05-23 22:42:09 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:


If it's so safe that you have never even lost on then clearly these op fleet dropping fleets aren't actually all that much of a problem are they?


I would agree carrier ratting in general is 'too safe' for the amount of income it generates. However rorqs are $#$$ in the wind for 5 minute cycles. Which is more of what this is talking about.
Rhaegon Aesir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2017-05-23 22:45:40 UTC
Kassimila wrote:
I would agree carrier ratting in general is 'too safe' for the amount of income it generates. However rorqs are $#$$ in the wind for 5 minute cycles. Which is more of what this is talking about.


So having the PANIC module, a cyno, local, and a backup fleet isn't safe enough for you?

Kassimila
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#24 - 2017-05-23 22:59:09 UTC
Rhaegon Aesir wrote:
Ok, so here's the thing. Wormhole corps NEED rolling, because that's how we find things to shoot. We can't just go "Oh let's go visit Hard Knocks staging today" like you nullsec players do. Rolling is an integral part of wormhole life and if you make it more difficult, you make finding content more difficult. This is bad.

Secondly, wormholes are RANDOM, have MASS LIMITS, and MASS RESTRICTIONS. CCP added jump fatigue to prevent giant capital blobs from reaching any and all of New eden. The absolute largest wormholes can only take 3-4 capitals before collapsing, and no supers or titans. Please, explain to me how these two scenarios are even remotely comparable.

Oh, and since they are random, you cannot simply choose your destination like with a cyno. Those t3s that you mentioned, maybe they want to go to goon space. While their friends set off via gate or bridge, the wormhole fleet spends an entire day rolling through all 3000+ nullsec systems, but never actually finds a connection to goon space. Again, how are these situations comparable?

Oh, and you're in NC. You're not a wormholer. I don't care if you have an alt in a hole with a null static, or if you daytrip. You don't spend the majority of your time in w-space, and your asking for a nerf to wormhole space that benefits nullsec. You are not a wormholer so stop trying to make changes to our home space, thank you.


Where do I begin with you. I've been playing off and on since 2005, and I've lived in a C5 wormhole for months. Stop with the "OH YOU ARE NC.!" bs. Assuming this is my only account, in eve online, is just stupid. For all you know I have a character in your very corp.

You're comparing a Wormhole to a cyno, however in the instance of a cyno I see the pilot enter local. If it's a hostile, I see it on intel channels. Also jump range is very limited, so the enemy fleet would need to be pretty close. I like the use of wormhole chains to zip around the galaxy. That is I agree, a good thing.

With rage rolling however, the only delay involved is the time to probe down the new connection. This creates a situation where you're able to simple sit in your home system, and reach the entire galaxy at whim. Is it random ? Sure. However you're just 'looking for content' anyway. Please explain the downside of this to me.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#25 - 2017-05-23 23:06:44 UTC
Kassimila wrote:
If that truly is the case it seems very one sided. The solution from the null sec end of things is 'have a support fleet ready', except nullsec support fleets had their legs cut off with the Jump Fatigue changes. The only other option I can think of is to allow system owners to place some sort of 'wormhole' jammer in their systems, to prevent it from opening right on top of them.


Why do you need jump capable ships to have support fleets? If you don't have enough people in pocket with you to have support fleets, why are you in null in the first place?
Kassimila
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2017-05-23 23:14:59 UTC
Rhaegon Aesir wrote:
Kassimila wrote:
I would agree carrier ratting in general is 'too safe' for the amount of income it generates. However rorqs are $#$$ in the wind for 5 minute cycles. Which is more of what this is talking about.


So having the PANIC module, a cyno, local, and a backup fleet isn't safe enough for you?



I applaud your ability to be this obtuse. You're making the assumption that you can flash form defense within 7 minutes. Can it be done? It sure can. Again I'll point to the 26+ rorqs lost in delve recently. Goons formed, didn't help. They had panic, didn't help.

Go check the killboards, inner hell takes down a rorq on a near daily basis. The fact is being stuck in a single spot for 5 minutes at a time is an enormous risk, for very little payout. It's a problem, and it needs to be addressed.
Kassimila
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2017-05-23 23:16:15 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Kassimila wrote:
If that truly is the case it seems very one sided. The solution from the null sec end of things is 'have a support fleet ready', except nullsec support fleets had their legs cut off with the Jump Fatigue changes. The only other option I can think of is to allow system owners to place some sort of 'wormhole' jammer in their systems, to prevent it from opening right on top of them.


Why do you need jump capable ships to have support fleets? If you don't have enough people in pocket with you to have support fleets, why are you in null in the first place?


Do you honestly think hordes of players are going to sit around and defend a few people doing PVE activities? Do you play eve?
Rhaegon Aesir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2017-05-23 23:21:18 UTC
Kassimila wrote:
Please explain the downside of this to me.


The vast majority of systems in EVE are completely empty. This means that it often takes a significant amount of time before you actually find any kind of content when ragerolling. You are proposing that it take at least 4-5x longer to rageroll than it does currently. Therefore, the amount of potential content for wormhole corps is reduced by an enormous amount, a d the only ones who benefit are the nullbears who are now safer.

Kassimila wrote:
I've been playing off and on since 2005, and I've lived in a C5 wormhole for months.


For someone who has spent years in the game, that is an exceedingly small amount of time spent in wormhole space. I'm the opposite of you; I've spent a good 90% of my time in wormholes, but I did spend a few months in a nullsec alliance as well. By your logic, this qualifies me to make suggestions for changing nullsec, so here is one suggestion that I have, how about we completely remove Local chat from the game?

See, its easy to make suggestions if you have no understanding of how they effect other people around you.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#29 - 2017-05-23 23:24:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Sonya Corvinus
Kassimila wrote:
Do you honestly think hordes of players are going to sit around and defend a few people doing PVE activities? Do you play eve?


You can't reship from a mining/ratting ship in 30 seconds to take out an attacker in null?

Realistically, people dock up/cloak up/hide when people are under attack in null. It's full of more carebears than any part of the game. That's the problem here.

Your fellow ratters and miners are your defense fleet. Most of them in null just don't want to risk losing a ship to defend someone.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#30 - 2017-05-24 03:28:36 UTC
Alright the reason that the rorq can mine so much in the siege is because it's expected to have a support fleet ready to respond during its invuln. The reason so many are lost is because null is so safe it's worth the risk mining in them without a support fleet. For the most part they pay themselfs off before they are popped


But in NO situation should a capital be expected to operate safely without support doesn't matter if it's a military or civilian capital.


If they were so vulnerable as you would like is to believe they would not be being used at all and they certainly

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Kassimila
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2017-05-24 08:27:09 UTC
Rhaegon Aesir wrote:


For someone who has spent years in the game, that is an exceedingly small amount of time spent in wormhole space. I'm the opposite of you; I've spent a good 90% of my time in wormholes, but I did spend a few months in a nullsec alliance as well. By your logic, this qualifies me to make suggestions for changing nullsec, so here is one suggestion that I have, how about we completely remove Local chat from the game?

See, its easy to make suggestions if you have no understanding of how they effect other people around you.


I'm actually for some sort of delayed local in null/low sec. I'd love to see more pilots forced to use the probe/dscan interface. I also see that you're neglecting the fact that you have entire wormhole chains full of people to hunt. I never found WH space to be lacking in content.

So my question to you is, shouldn't good play be rewarded? Shouldn't the player watching intel/local/dscan be rewarded for their proper play? To that end, even if a player has their scanner open they won't see a wormhole until it's too late. Which is the entire point of my original post. There needs to be some sort of warning to the player that a wormhole is about to appear, the only way to do that is to introduce a delay.
Kassimila
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2017-05-24 08:29:10 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Kassimila wrote:
Do you honestly think hordes of players are going to sit around and defend a few people doing PVE activities? Do you play eve?


You can't reship from a mining/ratting ship in 30 seconds to take out an attacker in null?

Realistically, people dock up/cloak up/hide when people are under attack in null. It's full of more carebears than any part of the game. That's the problem here.

Your fellow ratters and miners are your defense fleet. Most of them in null just don't want to risk losing a ship to defend someone.


Ahhh yes, null sec, full of carebears...sure. Should be able to take that space easy then since it's just empty, and full of carebears. :P
Kassimila
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2017-05-24 08:34:45 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Alright the reason that the rorq can mine so much in the siege is because it's expected to have a support fleet ready to respond during its invuln. The reason so many are lost is because null is so safe it's worth the risk mining in them without a support fleet. For the most part they pay themselfs off before they are popped


But in NO situation should a capital be expected to operate safely without support doesn't matter if it's a military or civilian capital.


If they were so vulnerable as you would like is to believe they would not be being used at all and they certainly


They don't though, that's part of the problem. Post nerf rorqs make about 200mil an hour, for a 8-10 billion isk investment. That is 40 hours of mining just to pay for the ship. The risk vs reward is way off.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#34 - 2017-05-24 08:54:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Wander Prian
Kassimila wrote:
Rhaegon Aesir wrote:


For someone who has spent years in the game, that is an exceedingly small amount of time spent in wormhole space. I'm the opposite of you; I've spent a good 90% of my time in wormholes, but I did spend a few months in a nullsec alliance as well. By your logic, this qualifies me to make suggestions for changing nullsec, so here is one suggestion that I have, how about we completely remove Local chat from the game?

See, its easy to make suggestions if you have no understanding of how they effect other people around you.


I'm actually for some sort of delayed local in null/low sec. I'd love to see more pilots forced to use the probe/dscan interface. I also see that you're neglecting the fact that you have entire wormhole chains full of people to hunt. I never found WH space to be lacking in content.

So my question to you is, shouldn't good play be rewarded? Shouldn't the player watching intel/local/dscan be rewarded for their proper play? To that end, even if a player has their scanner open they won't see a wormhole until it's too late. Which is the entire point of my original post. There needs to be some sort of warning to the player that a wormhole is about to appear, the only way to do that is to introduce a delay.


No, wormholes do not need to warn about opening. It is enough that it pops up in the scanner without having to have probes out. If you feel it's too dangerous to mine in a Rorqual, because of the miniscule chance that a wormhole-corporation will drop on you, you really need to get out of null...

Wormholers have been hunting in nullsec for years and now it's suddenly a problem because of a 5 minute timer? Do you know what the chances are for you getting dropped through a wormhole that has been rolled for the exact purpose of finding a Rorqual to kill? Most of the time it's just "oh look, a nullsec. Let's see if we can get any content from here"


You are completely ignoring the fact that rolling wormholes is random. You may end up spending 5-30 minutes in rolling your static looking for the type of content you want. It's not anywhere near the same as what caused jump fatique to be added.

Wormholer for life.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#35 - 2017-05-24 10:25:13 UTC
Kassimila wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Alright the reason that the rorq can mine so much in the siege is because it's expected to have a support fleet ready to respond during its invuln. The reason so many are lost is because null is so safe it's worth the risk mining in them without a support fleet. For the most part they pay themselfs off before they are popped


But in NO situation should a capital be expected to operate safely without support doesn't matter if it's a military or civilian capital.


If they were so vulnerable as you would like is to believe they would not be being used at all and they certainly


They don't though, that's part of the problem. Post nerf rorqs make about 200mil an hour, for a 8-10 billion isk investment. That is 40 hours of mining just to pay for the ship. The risk vs reward is way off.




Are you counting the extra income from the fleet it's boosting? Because again please remember they ate nor intended as solo ships

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#36 - 2017-05-24 10:26:48 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
Kassimila wrote:
Rhaegon Aesir wrote:


For someone who has spent years in the game, that is an exceedingly small amount of time spent in wormhole space. I'm the opposite of you; I've spent a good 90% of my time in wormholes, but I did spend a few months in a nullsec alliance as well. By your logic, this qualifies me to make suggestions for changing nullsec, so here is one suggestion that I have, how about we completely remove Local chat from the game?

See, its easy to make suggestions if you have no understanding of how they effect other people around you.


I'm actually for some sort of delayed local in null/low sec. I'd love to see more pilots forced to use the probe/dscan interface. I also see that you're neglecting the fact that you have entire wormhole chains full of people to hunt. I never found WH space to be lacking in content.

So my question to you is, shouldn't good play be rewarded? Shouldn't the player watching intel/local/dscan be rewarded for their proper play? To that end, even if a player has their scanner open they won't see a wormhole until it's too late. Which is the entire point of my original post. There needs to be some sort of warning to the player that a wormhole is about to appear, the only way to do that is to introduce a delay.


No, wormholes do not need to warn about opening. It is enough that it pops up in the scanner without having to have probes out. If you feel it's too dangerous to mine in a Rorqual, because of the miniscule chance that a wormhole-corporation will drop on you, you really need to get out of null...

Wormholers have been hunting in nullsec for years and now it's suddenly a problem because of a 5 minute timer? Do you know what the chances are for you getting dropped through a wormhole that has been rolled for the exact purpose of finding a Rorqual to kill? Most of the time it's just "oh look, a nullsec. Let's see if we can get any content from here"


You are completely ignoring the fact that rolling wormholes is random. You may end up spending 5-30 minutes in rolling your static looking for the type of content you want. It's not anywhere near the same as what caused jump fatique to be added.


Man i would be happy to only spend 30 minutes finding a good null.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#37 - 2017-05-24 10:33:10 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Kassimila wrote:
Rhaegon Aesir wrote:


For someone who has spent years in the game, that is an exceedingly small amount of time spent in wormhole space. I'm the opposite of you; I've spent a good 90% of my time in wormholes, but I did spend a few months in a nullsec alliance as well. By your logic, this qualifies me to make suggestions for changing nullsec, so here is one suggestion that I have, how about we completely remove Local chat from the game?

See, its easy to make suggestions if you have no understanding of how they effect other people around you.


I'm actually for some sort of delayed local in null/low sec. I'd love to see more pilots forced to use the probe/dscan interface. I also see that you're neglecting the fact that you have entire wormhole chains full of people to hunt. I never found WH space to be lacking in content.

So my question to you is, shouldn't good play be rewarded? Shouldn't the player watching intel/local/dscan be rewarded for their proper play? To that end, even if a player has their scanner open they won't see a wormhole until it's too late. Which is the entire point of my original post. There needs to be some sort of warning to the player that a wormhole is about to appear, the only way to do that is to introduce a delay.


No, wormholes do not need to warn about opening. It is enough that it pops up in the scanner without having to have probes out. If you feel it's too dangerous to mine in a Rorqual, because of the miniscule chance that a wormhole-corporation will drop on you, you really need to get out of null...

Wormholers have been hunting in nullsec for years and now it's suddenly a problem because of a 5 minute timer? Do you know what the chances are for you getting dropped through a wormhole that has been rolled for the exact purpose of finding a Rorqual to kill? Most of the time it's just "oh look, a nullsec. Let's see if we can get any content from here"


You are completely ignoring the fact that rolling wormholes is random. You may end up spending 5-30 minutes in rolling your static looking for the type of content you want. It's not anywhere near the same as what caused jump fatique to be added.


Man i would be happy to only spend 30 minutes finding a good null.


I know exactly what you mean. Some people really should play some more before trying to make balance changes....

Wormholer for life.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#38 - 2017-05-24 22:01:19 UTC
Kassimila wrote:
Ahhh yes, null sec, full of carebears...sure. Should be able to take that space easy then since it's just empty, and full of carebears. :P


Why on earth would I want to live in null? It's more boring than highsec. I want more out of a game than AFK mining while watching netflix and pressing nothing but F1 in fleets.
Paige Booker
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2017-05-26 04:33:31 UTC
Wait so we want to nerf players getting content? Please, tell me how much fun I get to have sitting and waiting 5 min every time I have no content from my dead end static.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#40 - 2017-05-26 05:21:24 UTC
Paige Booker wrote:
Wait so we want to nerf players getting content? Please, tell me how much fun I get to have sitting and waiting 5 min every time I have no content from my dead end static.



that is five minutes on top of the time it takes you to roll and scan down the new one.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
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