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Dev blog: Increased Skill Injector Flexibility Coming On May 23rd

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Aernir Ridley
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#41 - 2017-05-21 01:58:42 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
WOW just WOW. Why would someone who has invested in creating a 500k SP package (extractors aren't being split so 500K is the minimum) then split it up and sell it cheaper than they would get selling it as a whole? When have you ever seen a lesser amount of any consumable cheaper than buying in bulk? As you said, you are no expert on how market works or the local supermarket it seems.

100K SP packages WILL cost more per SP than it does now.


Alright think about it this way. If a single injector could be split up into multiple instantly and sold for a higher total price, than the following cycle could occur: Buy Injector > Split > Sell > Profit x ISK > Buy More > Repeat.

This is unsustainable, because it would eventually reach a point where someone would be willing to underbid until there is no more or extremely little profit to be had.

Sgt Ocker wrote:

" if you ever took economics" - LOL, before posting things like this, go take a look at the plex market - 200K increase over 3 days, 500K increase over the last few months - Demand is the same, supply is the same, why then has the price gone up so much.


Both of these instances resulted from something called speculative trading in the real world. Basically it's a knee-jerk reaction to an announced upcoming change. The first in response to the PLEX changes, the second to this change. If I'm wrong, the price of Skill Injectors will take a quick sharp increase after this update rolls out, fine. But if I'm right, this current increase will quickly subside back to normal levels (Decreases are extremely unlikely due to Skill Injector's Connection to PLEX).

Sgt Ocker wrote:

As for SP farmers - SP farming is not worth it right now as you fall short of plexing the account by roughly 300 mil, forget any sort of profit from it (which after all is why SP farmers farm, no point doing it if you can't make a profit). You need to get at least 460 mil return from each injector just to plex the account, currently with prices as they are you're getting around 380 mil = Many Plex farmers won't continue until prices turn around, which will in the meantime force prices for injectors up even more as demand outstrips supply. That is pure economics of supply and demand.


The current cost of PLEX is 1.39 bil. The current profit with max trading skills is 416,428,180 ISK per PLEX. With a proper farmer you make 7 injectors every two months (3.888 each month, the 4n-1 formula works all the way up to 8 months, so basically 4 a month). Even with the 7 every 2 months conversion, you still make a (albeit pretty low) 60 mil profit a month. And I know people who are still successfully farming even now.

Sgt Ocker wrote:

Oh and just as an aside - Thermodynamics is a rank 3 skill, just over 600K SP from lvl 4 to lvl 5 - Just how is that going to be cheaper to do with mini injectors. Presuming you have over 5 mil but less than 50 mil SP, you will get 80K per injector which adds up to 8 mini injectors.


I was more referring to skills that had never been trained at all in the first place. Most people don't go from 0-5 unless that skill really needs to be at level 5.

"For most people, the sky's the limit... For those who love aviation, the sky, is home."

-Cheers! :D
Vladimir Stolichnaya
Rio Rancho Estates
#42 - 2017-05-21 07:45:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Vladimir Stolichnaya
Aernir Ridley wrote:

1) I'm not a massive expert on the markets,

2) shouldn't the value of small skill injectors balance out at lower than 1/5 of the full one?

3) I could see how some may think the price of large skill injectors would increase


1) Well that is an understatement.

2) You MUST be new here.

3) The price of large injectors will go up, to a point.
BUT, more importantly, the cost of [5] mini injectors WILL ABSOLUTELY cost more then a single large injector.

Which means = At some point, you will most likely no longer see large injectors on the market, period.
Why?
Because why sell 500k SP for 700mil, when you can sell [5] 100k sp for more, even if its a mear 10mil ISK more.
Profit is profit.

End result = CCP might as well just do to current skill injectors what they did to PLEX.
Remove ALL large injectors from the market, break them up into mini injectors, then remove the large 500k injectors from the game.

Then tell us "The market is stable" lol After the price per 500k sp in injectors spikes.

Which will also result in people asking more for extractors, because where is MY extra profit.
Which will drive the price of PLEX up because it will become profitable to just buy/resell extractors with PLEX.

In closing = Don't be surprised to see 500 PLEX costing 1.5b, or more.

But hey! "the market is stable" Right CCP ?

PS: But Vlad? The market will run out of skill injectors won't it ?
No Johnny, of course not! Here's why ....

With CCP "unable" to fix the "bug" [anytime in the foreseeable future] in using PLEX to pay for character transfers and the rise in profitability of skill injectors means more and more folks will simply extract SP out of characters instead of selling them whole.

But don't fret, the cost of extracting SP out of a character is far, far more profitable [for CCP] then using just 1000 PLEX to transfer a character.
Everybody wins......... Right? Oh wait! CCP and the folks who open their wallets win, just not you Johnny, sorry. :(
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#43 - 2017-05-21 13:52:13 UTC
HAH!!!

I think Vlad has a much better understanding than Aenir..........

especially this part:

Vladimir Stolichnaya wrote:
But don't fret, the cost of extracting SP out of a character is far, far more profitable [for CCP] then using just 1000 PLEX to transfer a character.
Everybody wins......... Right? Oh wait! CCP and the folks who open their wallets win, just not you Johnny, sorry. :(
Soleiyu
Soleiyu Corporation
#44 - 2017-05-21 13:53:59 UTC
I just recently re-installed the game, and when I saw the plex screen being pushed, the "buy 440 gems...I mean plex and get 60 bonus" which made no sense at all because 440 ge..plex cost the same as a 30 day plex used to, and so the 60 bonus are...not bonus at all..when I saw that I just figured "oh, it's happened, CCP think we're drooling idiots".

And now injectors...makes sense I guess, vets have too many skillpoints and alts we can ruthlessly drain, and new players are likely not used to waiting for skills to tick upwards, even if grinding 15000 defias bandits or whatever takes longer, if feels more like progression - so a little scratch here and there...easier to digest - you wouldn't pay £10 for a pint of tea, but £2 a cup, 5 times, goes down better. Yeah I get it, we all do.

Considering how making the game free to play/alpha has somehow managed to not increase the concurrent players, and I'm speaking to a lot of alphas in the game who just cba to sub, which is testament to the chatroom in space nickname the game has, I guess, it's all-or-nothing to increase revenue. And good luck with that, but I don't think this is going to end well.

Why not make the game fun2play?

Vets are mostly bored/alpha slumming @_@ and there's no way you're getting enough new players with the game as it is...or is this WoD/DUST/Incarna 2.0, where eve is milked senseless to fund... VR? Valkyire is rather nice I admit, needs fleshing out though...

I have literally thousands of fitted ships right now (ok, mostly trashfit griffins/merlins), but I just CBA to play. Mini skill injectors...are not going to change it. I want the game to be fun, not a "progress quest" like grind adorned with micro transactions on top of a subscription where you end up spending money to justify the money you've already spent ad-infinitum.

I dunno, perhaps eve really has had it's time and VR is the thing. CCP seem to think so, I kind of agree.
Asami Blackwidow Yamazaki
Sisters of AEterkon
#45 - 2017-05-21 16:21:46 UTC
Constructive Criticism:

There should be an ISK or time cost to convert these from one state to another. Instant conversion with zero cost makes these just-another-currency which we just finished moving away from.
Tessa Sage
Long Pig Luncheon Meat
Sending Thots And Players
#46 - 2017-05-21 19:24:44 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Good change. Fully supported. It makes it easier to round out a character.


It actually changes nothing except the cost to use injectors - 100K injectors will cost more per SP therefore making it harder for newer characters to buy them.


If there are multiple ways to acquire the smaller skill injectors, sale price becomes an incentive to split your stack rather than hoard. I'm hopeful that these will inevitably 'drop' off specific rat loot or become part of NPC LP transactions. This introduces a further balance: A particular faction might offer small skill injectors for just that skill tree.

Hopefully someone starts such a topic in the Ideas and Features... Cool
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#47 - 2017-05-22 07:44:58 UTC
Granular. Word of 2017. Everything in this game will be granular soon.
This is the end of Large skills injectors. Granular PLEX shows it's better to sell smaller chunks with higher price, only idiots would not benefit from this situation. Change for new players ofc...first PLEX prices, now they do the same with skills injectors. Malcanis law in practice.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#48 - 2017-05-22 14:03:22 UTC
Inb4 we can transport them in the PLEX vault.

You know it will happen

It makes me sad

Evil RatKid
h4kun4
Senkawa Tactical Division
Crimson Citadel
#49 - 2017-05-22 17:17:42 UTC  |  Edited by: h4kun4
I just have one comment: Don't do this CCP, please.

Why?, You might ask ... good you are asking, here is why: Because something horrible is going to happen, Large ones will become unlikely to be sold and Small ones might eventually spike at +200m, which is alltogether still less per injector but if you think it through a price increase over all, by almost 30%.

Granularing items will just do one thing, it will painfully make prices say: "prepare your anuses", to all players in the game buying that stuff.
Same with the small bananas or the small cucumbers, or the small coke cans, the small ketchup bottles, you get what i mean. Thats literally kindergarten economics 101, Iv'e learnt that before i could write properly, the small stuff costs more per weight than the larger ones, except supermarkets still sell larger ones because they have demand and people would go insane if supersized coke bottles would disappear.
In EVE people say: Screw demand, eat or die.
BESTER bm
Doomheim
#50 - 2017-05-23 09:45:10 UTC
h4kun4 wrote:
I just have one comment: Don't do this CCP, please.

Why?, You might ask ... good you are asking, here is why: Because something horrible is going to happen, Large ones will become unlikely to be sold and Small ones might eventually spike at +200m, which is alltogether still less per injector but if you think it through a price increase over all, by almost 30%.


Point is that this is probably exactly what CCP is going for.. These extractors are most useful for new players with low SP counts and as such will very frequently buy PLEX with real world money (RWM) and so this will fill the CCP cash register.

That it screws over those who are generating enough in game cash to not spends RWM is something they are not to concerned about as the number of players to drop off over this will be fairly minimal and certainly do not negate the income it will generate.

Between my toons I generate probably 20-25B ISK/month so this does not really affect me in any way but with the introduction of Alpha clones, with all the blah blah surrounding it, it should have been obvious that this was for one reason only; get new blood in which you then can extract money from by using micro transactions in game.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#51 - 2017-05-23 11:34:47 UTC
Tessa Sage wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Good change. Fully supported. It makes it easier to round out a character.


It actually changes nothing except the cost to use injectors - 100K injectors will cost more per SP therefore making it harder for newer characters to buy them.


If there are multiple ways to acquire the smaller skill injectors, sale price becomes an incentive to split your stack rather than hoard. I'm hopeful that these will inevitably 'drop' off specific rat loot or become part of NPC LP transactions. This introduces a further balance: A particular faction might offer small skill injectors for just that skill tree.

Hopefully someone starts such a topic in the Ideas and Features... Cool

Do you really think CCP is going to "give" revenue away as drops??

The ONLY reason injectors are being split is the hope they will sell more which means the purchase of more extractors which all means more income for CCP (or potential buyers of Eve).

We are off to a good start - 200 mil for 100K SP - Lets see if they go down by 50 mil or will 100K SP cost that much more than 500K.
The only incentive needed to split injectors is making more isk per extractor. So far that is well on track.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Joan Maetsuycker
V.O.C. Bensdorp
#52 - 2017-05-24 13:59:17 UTC
I think it will be good that we go to a situation that you can exchange 500 plex for 2 billion,
That injectors become so expensive that people not will use it to much to lvl up to quick
Sylvia Kildare
Kinetic Fury
#53 - 2017-06-14 02:15:33 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Tessa Sage wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Good change. Fully supported. It makes it easier to round out a character.


It actually changes nothing except the cost to use injectors - 100K injectors will cost more per SP therefore making it harder for newer characters to buy them.


If there are multiple ways to acquire the smaller skill injectors, sale price becomes an incentive to split your stack rather than hoard. I'm hopeful that these will inevitably 'drop' off specific rat loot or become part of NPC LP transactions. This introduces a further balance: A particular faction might offer small skill injectors for just that skill tree.

Hopefully someone starts such a topic in the Ideas and Features... Cool

Do you really think CCP is going to "give" revenue away as drops??

The ONLY reason injectors are being split is the hope they will sell more which means the purchase of more extractors which all means more income for CCP (or potential buyers of Eve).

We are off to a good start - 200 mil for 100K SP - Lets see if they go down by 50 mil or will 100K SP cost that much more than 500K.
The only incentive needed to split injectors is making more isk per extractor. So far that is well on track.


I mean... there's a small chance to get a small bit of PLEX in the new rogue drone event sites that just started earlier today...

It's not impossible that mini injectors might be obtainable in game at some point. Maybe as rewards from a SCOPE-style future event.

They won't be super-overfarmable, no doubt. But possible to obtain, even if a rare thing? Sure.
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