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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#9721 - 2017-05-22 08:38:11 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Really? Demonstrate how it is that Local is the problem when it's exactly the same in High, Low and Null Sec, without taking into account the efforts in clearing it and keeping it clear.


Because people in HS are not going to just warp in on you and start shooting. LS and NS use local differently than people in HS. Because of the mechanical differences between HS and LS/NS and also due to population levels. You know this, but you pretend otherwise because it suits you to be intellectually dishonest.



All of which means, really obviously, that the problem isn't Local.

People get shot in HS all the time. I have seen people straight up gank mauraders for kicks in highsec, though not often. Why didn't Local protect those people?

It's perfectly possible to attack people in LS, and it happens all the time. Why didn't Local protect those people?

I understand the differences. The silly stance that cloaks are needed to counter Local is simply false, and it's easily seen by looking anywhere people die that has Local.

The only difference is how it's used, and that use isn't possible without spending the massive time and effort of clearing and maintaining Local. Your Problem isn't Local, your problem is player effort.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#9722 - 2017-05-22 08:47:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Voidstar
Teckos Pech wrote:

There is no "effort in clearing it"--i.e. local. In NS local is generally clear due to the mechanical differences between HS and NS. A player can move form one HS system to another with relative impunity. This is not at all true in NS. You pretend that this difference does not exist because it suits your false narrative.

The reality is that local is not the same in HS and NS. In the former unless you are at war or are mining in anything other than a proc or skiff local is largely useless. In NS it is extremely useful. You know this.

In short Mike you are simply lying.


And how did it get to be so useful?

Come on, you can say it...

Because players have driven out anyone not allied with them, and they continuously keep it that way. The problem isn't local. It performs the same way, everywhere, for everyone (other than that insignificant loading delay that I agree should be addressed).

It's no harder to get around in NS than it is in HS or LS. You click the gate and off you go. It's the players and their actions that are different, and that's where your problems lie.

And that's why you don't want a change to cloaks. Because they allow you to ignore player action which leaves you safe.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#9723 - 2017-05-22 09:00:28 UTC
The loading delay has no impact at all on the large groups as they have people in systems reporting stuff, it will just kill smaller groups and make it easier for the big groups to drive them out, would CCP be so stupid to do this, perhaps, but if they want smaller groups in 0.0 using their space and creating fun content by going out to fight what comes in because they can they will not do it.

People want delayed local because they are not prepared to jump into interceptors and use their brains, they want to fly their T3's in because they don't want to make the extra effort, that is especially true of WH players. Some do use interceptors and sabres and they catch stuff.

We catch stuff all the time using interceptors and sabres, only useless players demand this.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#9724 - 2017-05-22 09:06:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Voidstar
Dracvlad wrote:
The loading delay has no impact at all on the large groups as they have people in systems reporting stuff, it will just kill smaller groups and make it easier for the big groups to drive them out, would CCP be so stupid to do this, perhaps, but if they want smaller groups in 0.0 using their space and creating fun content by going out to fight what comes in because they can they will not do it.

People want delayed local because they are not prepared to jump into interceptors and use their brains, they want to fly their T3's in because they don't want to make the extra effort, that is especially true of WH players. Some do use interceptors and sabres and they catch stuff.

We catch stuff all the time using interceptors and sabres, only useless players demand this.



Yet, it is a valid point. Simply allowing the Gate Cloak to keep you out of local addresses it.

I'm not saying it's needed to allow for hunting to occur at all, just that it's the one valid point the pro-cloak crowd has fielded and it's not that hard to fix.

Also, if you don't include that point each and every time you mention that local works the same everywhere, for everyone then Teckos will try and derail you by acting as if it was a massive home field advantage. Hell, half the time he will simply snip out the qualifier and try to do it anyway.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#9725 - 2017-05-22 09:33:49 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Also, if you don't include that point each and every time you mention that local works the same everywhere, for everyone then Teckos will try and derail you by acting as if it was a massive home field advantage.

Because it is. Local was never intended to be an intel tool and that's pretty much all it's used for today.
AFK cloaking came to be only to counter that perfect intel tool, because there is no other way to counter it. Carebears pushed their safety intel to the extreme, so all we did was turn the gun around with afk cloaking.

No local chat intel -> no afk cloaking needed to counter local chat intel -> afk cloaking is gone.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#9726 - 2017-05-22 11:06:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
The loading delay has no impact at all on the large groups as they have people in systems reporting stuff, it will just kill smaller groups and make it easier for the big groups to drive them out, would CCP be so stupid to do this, perhaps, but if they want smaller groups in 0.0 using their space and creating fun content by going out to fight what comes in because they can they will not do it.

People want delayed local because they are not prepared to jump into interceptors and use their brains, they want to fly their T3's in because they don't want to make the extra effort, that is especially true of WH players. Some do use interceptors and sabres and they catch stuff.

We catch stuff all the time using interceptors and sabres, only useless players demand this.



Yet, it is a valid point. Simply allowing the Gate Cloak to keep you out of local addresses it.

I'm not saying it's needed to allow for hunting to occur at all, just that it's the one valid point the pro-cloak crowd has fielded and it's not that hard to fix.

Also, if you don't include that point each and every time you mention that local works the same everywhere, for everyone then Teckos will try and derail you by acting as if it was a massive home field advantage. Hell, half the time he will simply snip out the qualifier and try to do it anyway.


Teckos is typical of the people who claim that cloaky AFK camping is is not a problem, he is an old player with a lot of ISK and market trades so does not rat, so for him it is not a problem, he also likes to run around in a Proteus, so this makes the poor little dear able to be more effective, why should he gain an easy hunting ability, just because he is fail, same for the others whining about local.

The balance is currently correct, this is supposed to be a hard game and hunters have to hunt and most importantly if people do it right they will in all probability get out and that means the balance is good. That is correct balance, because in effect all you need to be is inattentive and you are in trouble, people ratting too long etc. Carrier ratting for example requires you to be attentive to your fighters so you are less able to pay attention and this can cause a crucial delay in reacting, good hunters know this.

Seriously it is because they do not want to put the effort in in terms of small ships and feel that the game owes them sure catches, damn losers...

Look at the desperation, that idiot Linus Gorp saying it is because of bots, please let us kill the bots, do we need to define game play for real people so that bots can be caught and killed, seriously what a fecking dumb argument.

Local has existed like this for years, I did not like the AFK part of cloaking camping, but with watch lists and the fact that people had to train for a long time for cyno 5 and there would be a history meant that you had a balance in intel, with the ending of the watch list for good reasons and of course skill injectors the intel side of counter play is gone. That is the difference, now the counter play of having 20+ people ready to react to BLOP's under a cyno jammed system is the only counter and you do that for people who are not even ATK, so what happens to smaller groups, head back to hisec, leave the game due to boredom?

Their push on local is because they want to get sure catches and is because they are poor hunters, it is as bleak and as simple as that. If CCP wants to turn Eve into a FPS type game then they should create a FPS game, in fact they have, these losers should go and play that.

EDIT: In my current alliance I have come across some truly superb hunters, which is why I have to call out these losers who post here about a delayed local and want it made easy for themselves...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9727 - 2017-05-22 20:22:02 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Really? Demonstrate how it is that Local is the problem when it's exactly the same in High, Low and Null Sec, without taking into account the efforts in clearing it and keeping it clear.


Because people in HS are not going to just warp in on you and start shooting. LS and NS use local differently than people in HS. Because of the mechanical differences between HS and LS/NS and also due to population levels. You know this, but you pretend otherwise because it suits you to be intellectually dishonest.



All of which means, really obviously, that the problem isn't Local.

People get shot in HS all the time. I have seen people straight up gank mauraders for kicks in highsec, though not often. Why didn't Local protect those people?

It's perfectly possible to attack people in LS, and it happens all the time. Why didn't Local protect those people?

I understand the differences. The silly stance that cloaks are needed to counter Local is simply false, and it's easily seen by looking anywhere people die that has Local.

The only difference is how it's used, and that use isn't possible without spending the massive time and effort of clearing and maintaining Local. Your Problem isn't Local, your problem is player effort.


No local is the root cause here. Nobody complains about AFK cloaking in wormholes...because they do not show in local. You only know there is an AFK cloaker or even an ATK cloaker in system because of local.

In HS watching local is unlikely to help you avoid a gank except in instances where you have set the gankers red. And even then you'll see them in....local. Same with war targets. You first check the grid, then you look at local.

And people use local all the time in LS. You get an idea of how are in system and thus a better idea of whether or not the next gate is camped, etc. And yeah, when people are doing stuff in LS and see a hostile pop up in local, you get safe...unless you are looking for a fight.

Without local you'd never know if a cloaked ship is in system. So, it is indeed local that is the root of the problem here.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9728 - 2017-05-22 20:27:54 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Teckos is typical of the people who claim that cloaky AFK camping is is not a problem, he is an old player with a lot of ISK and market trades so does not rat, so for him it is not a problem, he also likes to run around in a Proteus, so this makes the poor little dear able to be more effective, why should he gain an easy hunting ability, just because he is fail, same for the others whining about local.


I find it impressive you can pack so many lies into one paragraph.

1. I have stated I find that AFK cloaking is sup-optimal game play, which is why I favor removing it while also changing intel mechanics.
2. I do not rat because it is boring, I do not engage in market trading except in the most minimal manner--e.g. I buy stuff for invention and typically sell to sell orders, I have no patience for large scale market operations.

Quote:
The balance is currently correct, this is supposed to be a hard game and hunters have to hunt and most importantly if people do it right they will in all probability get out and that means the balance is good. That is correct balance, because in effect all you need to be is inattentive and you are in trouble, people ratting too long etc. Carrier ratting for example requires you to be attentive to your fighters so you are less able to pay attention and this can cause a crucial delay in reacting, good hunters know this.


I have also noted that currently things are balanced, but again sub-optimal.

Quote:
Seriously it is because they do not want to put the effort in in terms of small ships and feel that the game owes them sure catches, damn losers...


Better than being a narcissistic liar.

Quote:
Their push on local is because they want to get sure catches and is because they are poor hunters, it is as bleak and as simple as that. If CCP wants to turn Eve into a FPS type game then they should create a FPS game, in fact they have, these losers should go and play that.


And more lies.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9729 - 2017-05-22 20:32:05 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
The loading delay has no impact at all on the large groups as they have people in systems reporting stuff, it will just kill smaller groups and make it easier for the big groups to drive them out, would CCP be so stupid to do this, perhaps, but if they want smaller groups in 0.0 using their space and creating fun content by going out to fight what comes in because they can they will not do it.

People want delayed local because they are not prepared to jump into interceptors and use their brains, they want to fly their T3's in because they don't want to make the extra effort, that is especially true of WH players. Some do use interceptors and sabres and they catch stuff.

We catch stuff all the time using interceptors and sabres, only useless players demand this.



Yet, it is a valid point. Simply allowing the Gate Cloak to keep you out of local addresses it.

I'm not saying it's needed to allow for hunting to occur at all, just that it's the one valid point the pro-cloak crowd has fielded and it's not that hard to fix.

Also, if you don't include that point each and every time you mention that local works the same everywhere, for everyone then Teckos will try and derail you by acting as if it was a massive home field advantage. Hell, half the time he will simply snip out the qualifier and try to do it anyway.


How is somebody going to report a hostile in an intel channel. What is going to tell that person doing the reporting that there is a hostile? What mechanic in game.

Oh yeah! Local.

Jesus Christ. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Tessa Sage
Long Pig Luncheon Meat
Sending Thots And Players
#9730 - 2017-05-22 23:50:50 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

Oh yeah! Local.


We can resolve this at long last with no changes to cloaking in game. Local should only populate with accounts that have logged in / joined session and are fulfilling one of the following criteria:


  • Undocking from a citadel.
  • Activating an aggression module.
  • Opening a container / wreck.


Leave stargate traffic for a different overview tab: Constellation. In one room out the other.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#9731 - 2017-05-23 00:05:42 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Yet, it is a valid point. Simply allowing the Gate Cloak to keep you out of local addresses it.

I'm not saying it's needed to allow for hunting to occur at all, just that it's the one valid point the pro-cloak crowd has fielded and it's not that hard to fix.

Also, if you don't include that point each and every time you mention that local works the same everywhere, for everyone then Teckos will try and derail you by acting as if it was a massive home field advantage. Hell, half the time he will simply snip out the qualifier and try to do it anyway.


Stop replying to your alt.

Let people scan for cloaked ships and also get rid of local chat. Problem solved. Oh wait, you want to be able to PvE 100% safe in null, even though you can do that already.
BiBaBumm
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9732 - 2017-05-23 08:57:11 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Yet, it is a valid point. Simply allowing the Gate Cloak to keep you out of local addresses it.

I'm not saying it's needed to allow for hunting to occur at all, just that it's the one valid point the pro-cloak crowd has fielded and it's not that hard to fix.

Also, if you don't include that point each and every time you mention that local works the same everywhere, for everyone then Teckos will try and derail you by acting as if it was a massive home field advantage. Hell, half the time he will simply snip out the qualifier and try to do it anyway.


Stop replying to your alt.

Let people scan for cloaked ships and also get rid of local chat. Problem solved. Oh wait, you want to be able to PvE 100% safe in null, even though you can do that already.


Local in it´s actual way is needed to do some balance against cloaky. But it became boring this way ...
In this thread are some ideas I like to improve gameplay, which should be balanced.

Remove the local makes it total easy and riskfree to kill others, its like PvP-Ratting -> bad idea
Makes cloakys decloak after time -> No AFK cloak -> no counter to intel networks -> bad idea
Make cloakys scanable -> nice idea, but with actual local to strong -> bad idea

Having a unstopable T3 cruiser which can´t be bubbled + no visible in local -> bad idea

There should be a improvement on both sides. No "total safe PvE ratting" / "mining and I kill whatever I want". With active gameplay -> passive gameplay
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#9733 - 2017-05-23 10:26:30 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Yet, it is a valid point. Simply allowing the Gate Cloak to keep you out of local addresses it.

I'm not saying it's needed to allow for hunting to occur at all, just that it's the one valid point the pro-cloak crowd has fielded and it's not that hard to fix.

Also, if you don't include that point each and every time you mention that local works the same everywhere, for everyone then Teckos will try and derail you by acting as if it was a massive home field advantage. Hell, half the time he will simply snip out the qualifier and try to do it anyway.


Stop replying to your alt.

Let people scan for cloaked ships and also get rid of local chat. Problem solved. Oh wait, you want to be able to PvE 100% safe in null, even though you can do that already.


Lol... Just because more than one person disagrees with you does not mean the same person owns both accounts. You are funny.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#9734 - 2017-05-23 10:30:10 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
The loading delay has no impact at all on the large groups as they have people in systems reporting stuff, it will just kill smaller groups and make it easier for the big groups to drive them out, would CCP be so stupid to do this, perhaps, but if they want smaller groups in 0.0 using their space and creating fun content by going out to fight what comes in because they can they will not do it.

People want delayed local because they are not prepared to jump into interceptors and use their brains, they want to fly their T3's in because they don't want to make the extra effort, that is especially true of WH players. Some do use interceptors and sabres and they catch stuff.

We catch stuff all the time using interceptors and sabres, only useless players demand this.



Yet, it is a valid point. Simply allowing the Gate Cloak to keep you out of local addresses it.

I'm not saying it's needed to allow for hunting to occur at all, just that it's the one valid point the pro-cloak crowd has fielded and it's not that hard to fix.

Also, if you don't include that point each and every time you mention that local works the same everywhere, for everyone then Teckos will try and derail you by acting as if it was a massive home field advantage. Hell, half the time he will simply snip out the qualifier and try to do it anyway.


How is somebody going to report a hostile in an intel channel. What is going to tell that person doing the reporting that there is a hostile? What mechanic in game.

Oh yeah! Local.

Jesus Christ. Roll



I am sure you intended a relevant point here in response to the text you quoted. You should go back and add it.

But yes... I'm sure that it's all just local, which works the same for everyone *Insert boilerplate*, and not the efforts involved in makeiing it useful and the vigilance involved in using it that cause you such problems.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9735 - 2017-05-23 18:44:34 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
The loading delay has no impact at all on the large groups as they have people in systems reporting stuff, it will just kill smaller groups and make it easier for the big groups to drive them out, would CCP be so stupid to do this, perhaps, but if they want smaller groups in 0.0 using their space and creating fun content by going out to fight what comes in because they can they will not do it.

People want delayed local because they are not prepared to jump into interceptors and use their brains, they want to fly their T3's in because they don't want to make the extra effort, that is especially true of WH players. Some do use interceptors and sabres and they catch stuff.

We catch stuff all the time using interceptors and sabres, only useless players demand this.



Yet, it is a valid point. Simply allowing the Gate Cloak to keep you out of local addresses it.

I'm not saying it's needed to allow for hunting to occur at all, just that it's the one valid point the pro-cloak crowd has fielded and it's not that hard to fix.

Also, if you don't include that point each and every time you mention that local works the same everywhere, for everyone then Teckos will try and derail you by acting as if it was a massive home field advantage. Hell, half the time he will simply snip out the qualifier and try to do it anyway.


How is somebody going to report a hostile in an intel channel. What is going to tell that person doing the reporting that there is a hostile? What mechanic in game.

Oh yeah! Local.

Jesus Christ. Roll



I am sure you intended a relevant point here in response to the text you quoted. You should go back and add it.

But yes... I'm sure that it's all just local, which works the same for everyone *Insert boilerplate*, and not the efforts involved in makeiing it useful and the vigilance involved in using it that cause you such problems.


The point was obvious, so I can only conclude that you are being deliberately obtuse. Local is how you know a cloaker is in system. Local is why intel channels work as effectively as they do.

Further, what about the effort to make cloaks useful. I know you'll deny this because, well...you are deliberately obtuse. You have to buy the ship, fit it, fly it to it's destination, and then forgo any other benefits you could have obtained with that character while he AFK cloaks or even engages in ATK cloaking activities?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9736 - 2017-05-23 18:46:19 UTC
BiBaBumm wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Yet, it is a valid point. Simply allowing the Gate Cloak to keep you out of local addresses it.

I'm not saying it's needed to allow for hunting to occur at all, just that it's the one valid point the pro-cloak crowd has fielded and it's not that hard to fix.

Also, if you don't include that point each and every time you mention that local works the same everywhere, for everyone then Teckos will try and derail you by acting as if it was a massive home field advantage. Hell, half the time he will simply snip out the qualifier and try to do it anyway.


Stop replying to your alt.

Let people scan for cloaked ships and also get rid of local chat. Problem solved. Oh wait, you want to be able to PvE 100% safe in null, even though you can do that already.


Local in it´s actual way is needed to do some balance against cloaky. But it became boring this way ...
In this thread are some ideas I like to improve gameplay, which should be balanced.

Remove the local makes it total easy and riskfree to kill others, its like PvP-Ratting -> bad idea
Makes cloakys decloak after time -> No AFK cloak -> no counter to intel networks -> bad idea
Make cloakys scanable -> nice idea, but with actual local to strong -> bad idea

Having a unstopable T3 cruiser which can´t be bubbled + no visible in local -> bad idea

There should be a improvement on both sides. No "total safe PvE ratting" / "mining and I kill whatever I want". With active gameplay -> passive gameplay


Agreed. A solution has to look at both sides...local and cloaks.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#9737 - 2017-05-25 18:55:26 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
The loading delay has no impact at all on the large groups as they have people in systems reporting stuff, it will just kill smaller groups and make it easier for the big groups to drive them out, would CCP be so stupid to do this, perhaps, but if they want smaller groups in 0.0 using their space and creating fun content by going out to fight what comes in because they can they will not do it.

People want delayed local because they are not prepared to jump into interceptors and use their brains, they want to fly their T3's in because they don't want to make the extra effort, that is especially true of WH players. Some do use interceptors and sabres and they catch stuff.

We catch stuff all the time using interceptors and sabres, only useless players demand this.



Yet, it is a valid point. Simply allowing the Gate Cloak to keep you out of local addresses it.

I'm not saying it's needed to allow for hunting to occur at all, just that it's the one valid point the pro-cloak crowd has fielded and it's not that hard to fix.

Also, if you don't include that point each and every time you mention that local works the same everywhere, for everyone then Teckos will try and derail you by acting as if it was a massive home field advantage. Hell, half the time he will simply snip out the qualifier and try to do it anyway.


How is somebody going to report a hostile in an intel channel. What is going to tell that person doing the reporting that there is a hostile? What mechanic in game.

Oh yeah! Local.

Jesus Christ. Roll



I am sure you intended a relevant point here in response to the text you quoted. You should go back and add it.

But yes... I'm sure that it's all just local, which works the same for everyone *Insert boilerplate*, and not the efforts involved in makeiing it useful and the vigilance involved in using it that cause you such problems.


The point was obvious, so I can only conclude that you are being deliberately obtuse. Local is how you know a cloaker is in system. Local is why intel channels work as effectively as they do.

Further, what about the effort to make cloaks useful. I know you'll deny this because, well...you are deliberately obtuse. You have to buy the ship, fit it, fly it to it's destination, and then forgo any other benefits you could have obtained with that character while he AFK cloaks or even engages in ATK cloaking activities?


Well, we were discussing the loading delay, and you just sort of blurted "Local!" like it was relevant. Whatever.

The only special effort you are going through to make cloaks useful is turning it on more than 2000 meters away from a structure. Everyone has to get where they are somehow, and it's not hard to crash gates. Even I know how to pulse a microwarp and a cloak to evade most camps, and it's not like the gates are heavily defended in most peoples off hours. You want a Medal for staying up late one night?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9738 - 2017-05-26 00:12:24 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:

Well, we were discussing the loading delay, and you just sort of blurted "Local!" like it was relevant. Whatever.

The only special effort you are going through to make cloaks useful is turning it on more than 2000 meters away from a structure. Everyone has to get where they are somehow, and it's not hard to crash gates. Even I know how to pulse a microwarp and a cloak to evade most camps, and it's not like the gates are heavily defended in most peoples off hours. You want a Medal for staying up late one night?


I know you aren't stupid Mike so I can only conclude you are simply being mendacious.

Yes, you were having a discussion for a delay of local.

Why? If local is not the problem you shouldn't be talking about local at all.

The fact, that you and Dracvlad are talking about local it puts the lie to these claims, "Local is not the problem."

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#9739 - 2017-05-26 02:52:30 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:

Well, we were discussing the loading delay, and you just sort of blurted "Local!" like it was relevant. Whatever.

The only special effort you are going through to make cloaks useful is turning it on more than 2000 meters away from a structure. Everyone has to get where they are somehow, and it's not hard to crash gates. Even I know how to pulse a microwarp and a cloak to evade most camps, and it's not like the gates are heavily defended in most peoples off hours. You want a Medal for staying up late one night?


I know you aren't stupid Mike so I can only conclude you are simply being mendacious.

Yes, you were having a discussion for a delay of local.

Why? If local is not the problem you shouldn't be talking about local at all.

The fact, that you and Dracvlad are talking about local it puts the lie to these claims, "Local is not the problem."



Really? Who is being deliberately obtuse now?

That entire part of the conversation was about the only real issue with local you have brought up-- the loading delay.

Other than the loading delay there is no problem, because otherwise it works exactly the same for everyone not in wormhole space, which means your problem isn't with local, it is with player efforts being successful against you.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9740 - 2017-05-26 04:34:47 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:

Well, we were discussing the loading delay, and you just sort of blurted "Local!" like it was relevant. Whatever.

The only special effort you are going through to make cloaks useful is turning it on more than 2000 meters away from a structure. Everyone has to get where they are somehow, and it's not hard to crash gates. Even I know how to pulse a microwarp and a cloak to evade most camps, and it's not like the gates are heavily defended in most peoples off hours. You want a Medal for staying up late one night?


I know you aren't stupid Mike so I can only conclude you are simply being mendacious.

Yes, you were having a discussion for a delay of local.

Why? If local is not the problem you shouldn't be talking about local at all.

The fact, that you and Dracvlad are talking about local it puts the lie to these claims, "Local is not the problem."



Really? Who is being deliberately obtuse now?

That entire part of the conversation was about the only real issue with local you have brought up-- the loading delay.

Other than the loading delay there is no problem, because otherwise it works exactly the same for everyone not in wormhole space, which means your problem isn't with local, it is with player efforts being successful against you.


Which again goes back to...yes...local.

If local has nothing to do with AFK cloaking why are you even bringing it up?

Because it is the root of the issue.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

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