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Breaking News: Citadel/Plex Contracting.

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Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#21 - 2017-05-22 19:35:05 UTC
ISD Max Trix wrote:
Why would CCP change it? It was the same way for Null Stations and Outpost, why wouldn't Citadels be the same way? If you look at the contact destination it says "Destination may not be accessible." or some such thing.


Because it ain't fair man, I mean no one reads that warning anyways, who reads signs now adays? Twisted
Wanda Fayne
#22 - 2017-05-22 20:05:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Wanda Fayne
ISD Max Trix wrote:
Why would CCP change it? It was the same way for Null Stations and Outpost, why wouldn't Citadels be the same way? If you look at the contact destination it says "Destination may not be accessible." or some such thing.



Because logic says that I check to see if I can access the citadel before accepting the contract?

And because choosing "not to play" should never be a design goal...

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2017-05-22 20:17:44 UTC
There can be another solution: make owner of delivery contract unable to know who's deliverer until contract is failed.

Yeah, this makes life inconvenient for owners but hey, you always can negotiate something privately?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#24 - 2017-05-22 20:26:09 UTC
Citadels should be or not be accessible, not may or may not be accessible.

There should be an easy way to check it remotely and in the show info panel, and there should be time delay when switching modes, and it should be visible as sheduling in show info panel. Every real, not trollish system works like that.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#25 - 2017-05-22 20:30:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
March rabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Khara Hirl wrote:
The ability for someone to lock you out of a plex/citadel after accepting a courier contract, in my opinion is absolutely abuse of a game mechanic.

To me this is straight up mechanical abuse and the fact that CCP lets this type of activity go on, is absolutely disparaging to new players and disgusting to old players. This is NOT how to run a game, just because scamming is allowed doesnt mean you allow/design game mechanics to specifically allow scamming.

I have a solution and it's very very simple, allow couriers to right click their package with in 2500m of the citadel/plex and select deliver.

Why would CCP continue to allow this type of abuse, aren't you wanting new players to come into your game and stay? This isn't part of the whole "eve is hardcore, rah rah rah, get used to it rah rah rah, salt salt salt" Take this lesson to heart because you nearly killed your game by not listening to the silent majority but listening to the vocal minority when it comes to crap like this.


FIX DELIVERING TO PLEX/CITADELS IMMEDIATELY!



CCP please fix a problem i could fix for myself with a simple adjustment of personal policy (ie don't do couriers from Citadels/player owned structures period, then they can't lock you out).

Citadel owners will thank you A LOT when all of players will follow your advice "ignore citadels" Cool
I sense an opening for Chribba here, holding security deposits for honest citadel owners. Player driven solutions are more desirable in a sandbox game than dev driven ones.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2017-05-22 20:39:50 UTC
ISD Max Trix wrote:
Why would CCP change it? It was the same way for Null Stations and Outpost, why wouldn't Citadels be the same way? If you look at the contact destination it says "Destination may not be accessible." or some such thing.


I am reporting this outrageous post! Asking people to read the pops that warn them they are taking on more risk? Perposterous!

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2017-05-22 20:56:51 UTC
Yeah it should be fixed.
Skorpynekomimi
#28 - 2017-05-22 21:04:40 UTC
Wanda Fayne wrote:
Just add a 'dropbox'. Solved.


This. Make it like real-world courier jobs; if nobody answers, they leave it on the doorstep for passing opportunist thieves, leave it with a neighbour (so they can steal it) or take it back to the depot for re-delivery the next day.

So, if you can't get to the location, leave it in another station/complex in the system, and zugzug, job's done. Shouldn't be that hard to change a few mechanics?

Economic PVP
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#29 - 2017-05-22 21:52:44 UTC
You got scammed , while I as a carebear agree it's dirty it is what makes eve, eve.

Accept this as a lesson, grow because of it, never ever accept any courier contract without the ability to take the loss of the product, if you are putting big isk on the gambling table remember the rules, most of the time the house wins.

Sell the item, do the same and contract it below it's worth, someone will steal it and you get some of your isk back.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#30 - 2017-05-22 22:11:52 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Citadels should be or not be accessible, not may or may not be accessible.

There should be an easy way to check it remotely and in the show info panel, and there should be time delay when switching modes, and it should be visible as sheduling in show info panel. Every real, not trollish system works like that.


EVE is a game about griefing. All new system must be designed so it allows the gratuitous griefing of someone. That's the real spirit of EVE, and CCP are the largest griefers of all.
Khara Hirl
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2017-05-22 22:11:57 UTC
[quote=Shawn en Tilavine]BREAKING NEWS: CCP makes the game; players make the rules. Whatever rule CCP chooses to impose, good players will find ways to exploit it to their benefit. Nothing new here. Works as intended.

Uh no... I am a Senior Game Moderator and have been for 3 years on another mmorpg and no matter how much you want to think that you make the rules as a player, I can tell you the Dev team has the final say on everything. Also this is clearly not working as intended, if it is, ccp is out of their minds thinking this is even close to tolerable in an mmorpg in 2017. Times have changed, and I will stick by my original statement it's abusing a game mechanic that maybe they didn't realize would happen.
Khara Hirl
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2017-05-22 22:14:31 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Citadels should be or not be accessible, not may or may not be accessible.

There should be an easy way to check it remotely and in the show info panel, and there should be time delay when switching modes, and it should be visible as sheduling in show info panel. Every real, not trollish system works like that.


EVE is a game about griefing. All new system must be designed so it allows the gratuitous griefing of someone. That's the real spirit of EVE, and CCP are the largest griefers of all.



No.. eve is not about griefing in fact I know this because you can't be racist in this game and you can't harass people or you can banned. this right here is proof positive the game is not designed to grief people or the point of the game is to grief people. I am not asking this game turn into a carebear world of warcraft, and neither did I ever get scammed. but I can tell you this is a serious issue and it's not fair or realistic that a new player can lose all their money they earned over 3 months from 1 contract that they didn't understand because some jack ass locked them out of a citadel because the game allows that to happen.


You don't see this game punishing other professions in this manner, no other profession through a game mechanic such as this at a citadel can lose billions of isk at one time, not one other single profession takes as much of a risk as haulers do, and by god damn it we need protected, this is bullshit.
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#33 - 2017-05-22 22:29:00 UTC
It has been the same with contracts for years now. This same situation you describe has been experienced by traders in various nullsec stations across new eden.

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#34 - 2017-05-22 22:47:07 UTC
Maybe you could use another character made by you to access the citadel and then contract all stuff to that character so he can do something with it.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Revis Owen
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#35 - 2017-05-22 22:50:32 UTC
Khara Hirl wrote:
I am a Senior Game Moderator and have been for 3 years on another mmorpg


Welp that's it boys, she wins the argument.

Agent of the New Order http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2017-05-22 22:51:37 UTC
Khara Hirl wrote:
[quote=Shawn en Tilavine]BREAKING NEWS: CCP makes the game; players make the rules. Whatever rule CCP chooses to impose, good players will find ways to exploit it to their benefit. Nothing new here. Works as intended.

Uh no... I am a Senior Game Moderator and have been for 3 years on another mmorpg and no matter how much you want to think that you make the rules as a player, I can tell you the Dev team has the final say on everything. Also this is clearly not working as intended, if it is, ccp is out of their minds thinking this is even close to tolerable in an mmorpg in 2017. Times have changed, and I will stick by my original statement it's abusing a game mechanic that maybe they didn't realize would happen.



EVE is not like other games. The Devs leave loopholes like this in on purpose. The Devs are not hear to hold your hand and pat your poo-poo. They will, in all likelihood, point and laugh though.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#37 - 2017-05-22 22:57:22 UTC
Khara Hirl wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Citadels should be or not be accessible, not may or may not be accessible.

There should be an easy way to check it remotely and in the show info panel, and there should be time delay when switching modes, and it should be visible as sheduling in show info panel. Every real, not trollish system works like that.


EVE is a game about griefing. All new system must be designed so it allows the gratuitous griefing of someone. That's the real spirit of EVE, and CCP are the largest griefers of all.



No.. eve is not about griefing in fact I know this because you can't be racist in this game and you can't harass people or you can banned. this right here is proof positive the game is not designed to grief people or the point of the game is to grief people. I am not asking this game turn into a carebear world of warcraft, and neither did I ever get scammed. but I can tell you this is a serious issue and it's not fair or realistic that a new player can lose all their money they earned over 3 months from 1 contract that they didn't understand because some jack ass locked them out of a citadel because the game allows that to happen.


You don't see this game punishing other professions in this manner, no other profession through a game mechanic such as this at a citadel can lose billions of isk at one time, not one other single profession takes as much of a risk as haulers do, and by god damn it we need protected, this is bullshit.


It is your responsibility to manage and mitigate your risk. You have learned a valuable lesson and you have been given a strategy to avoid that risk in the future. To be quite honest this topic should be closed now. The devs need do nothing here.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#38 - 2017-05-22 22:58:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Khara Hirl wrote:
Uh no... I am a Senior Game Moderator and have been for 3 years on another mmorpg
Completely irrelevant, you're not a senior game moderator here nor is Eve that other MMO. Different games have different rules, being able to lock somebody out of a citadel is within the rules of this particular game.

Oh, and it's also a fallacy, argumentum ad verecundiam.

Quote:
and no matter how much you want to think that you make the rules as a player, I can tell you the Dev team has the final say on everything.
While you're correct in saying that the Dev team have the final say, it is also correct for us to claim that we make some of the rules using the tools that CCP have given us; such is the nature of the sandbox.

Quote:
Also this is clearly not working as intended, if it is, ccp is out of their minds thinking this is even close to tolerable in an mmorpg in 2017.
You've been told by an official CCP representative and forum moderator that it is working as intended, what you think is irrelevant in the face what CCP say is and is not working as intended.

Quote:
Times have changed, and I will stick by my original statement it's abusing a game mechanic that maybe they didn't realize would happen.
Of course they realised, it's been happening for years with player owned outposts, if CCP considered it to be abuse of a game mechanic they would have done something years ago.

While times may have indeed changed, Eve has never followed the norm for other MMO's; that's a large part the appeal of Eve FFS.

If you don't like or can't accept Eve for what it is then vote with your wallet, just like the hundreds of thousands before you that didn't like or couldn't accept Eve for what it is. It's not a game for everyone, and you appear to fall smack bang in the middle of the group that Eve isn't for.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#39 - 2017-05-22 23:01:44 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
EVE is not like other games. The Devs leave loopholes like this in on purpose. The Devs are not hear to hold your hand and pat your poo-poo. They will, in all likelihood, point and laugh though.
If anybody finds Eve holding their hand, they're about to lose an arm; and any accompanying jewellery that is attached to it and its extremities.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Aedaxus
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#40 - 2017-05-22 23:09:15 UTC
Shawn en Tilavine wrote:
BREAKING NEWS: CCP makes the game; players make the rules.

Players don't make the rules, CCP made the rules in the EULA and the Terms of Service. You'll learn after a few permabans.

The contract system is risky but at least offers a sign at the player owned structure contracts, so stop taking them. Let the POS owners complain and ragequit. CCP starts to care once their income dwindles.