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AI third party tools question

Author
sisterofeve6
Doomheim
#1 - 2017-05-22 06:24:10 UTC
i dont know much about AI or third party tools or the democratization of AI. But i'll dare ask anyway: would it make sense for ccp to release some sort of software platform to support the rise of AI third party tools for eve? would it accelerate the development of things? or are the software platforms like googles tensorflow enough for third party developers of eve to create something for us?

would be cool to get some kind of updates on the progress of AI in eve, im only asking because i read about progress of AI everyday on the news and its almost strange to not see any third party apps being adopted or developed.

it would be nice if ccp can put AI news on the weekly's so nerds like me can read about it and maybe try out the new tools when they come out, weekly AI news such as new speech recognition functionalities added, new prototypes, new projects etc.

please correct me if im wrong about my assumptions
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#2 - 2017-05-22 06:45:44 UTC
What do you mean?

What does this AI do?
sisterofeve6
Doomheim
#3 - 2017-05-22 07:24:41 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:
What do you mean?

What does this AI do?


i saw somebody twitch streaming a third party AI tool about 1-2 years ago, if i remember correctly he was saying stuff like "lock on target" and "warp" etc.

speech recognition has gone through some revolutionary transformation in recent years due to "neural nets" (atleast i think thats what i heard somebody say at google's developer conference). but i think "machine vision" in general probably has bigger potential for eve, i could be wrong
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2017-05-22 07:29:05 UTC
you are thinking of voice attack probably. its not an AI really you set a voice command to a set of key binding and it does them.


however with the crackdown on macros and input broadcasting i think its against eula
sisterofeve6
Doomheim
#5 - 2017-05-22 10:07:41 UTC
the advancements in AI are so fast that regulators havent had enough time to react to it, im cautiously optimistic that within a few years it will be normal for powerful AI in games, i mean look at what they are doing with starcraft, the journey has already begun
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#6 - 2017-05-22 12:17:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Rawketsled
sisterofeve6 wrote:
the advancements in AI are so fast that regulators havent had enough time to react to it, im cautiously optimistic that within a few years it will be normal for powerful AI in games, i mean look at what they are doing with starcraft, the journey has already begun

You should have a read of the EULA... the legal document you agreed to when you started playing. Particularly the part about botting and automation.

[EDIT] CCP is not making any grounds in the ways you are thinking. They have no interest in it.
sisterofeve6
Doomheim
#7 - 2017-05-22 14:24:00 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:
sisterofeve6 wrote:
the advancements in AI are so fast that regulators havent had enough time to react to it, im cautiously optimistic that within a few years it will be normal for powerful AI in games, i mean look at what they are doing with starcraft, the journey has already begun

You should have a read of the EULA... the legal document you agreed to when you started playing. Particularly the part about botting and automation.

[EDIT] CCP is not making any grounds in the ways you are thinking. They have no interest in it.


didnt ccp just recently announce they started creating smarter npc's and more advanced ai?
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#8 - 2017-05-22 23:23:01 UTC
sisterofeve6 wrote:
Rawketsled wrote:
sisterofeve6 wrote:
the advancements in AI are so fast that regulators havent had enough time to react to it, im cautiously optimistic that within a few years it will be normal for powerful AI in games, i mean look at what they are doing with starcraft, the journey has already begun

You should have a read of the EULA... the legal document you agreed to when you started playing. Particularly the part about botting and automation.

[EDIT] CCP is not making any grounds in the ways you are thinking. They have no interest in it.


didnt ccp just recently announce they started creating smarter npc's and more advanced ai?

That's for NPCs.

There's no natural language processing or any automation that players can use.
sisterofeve6
Doomheim
#9 - 2017-05-23 02:24:06 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:
sisterofeve6 wrote:
Rawketsled wrote:
sisterofeve6 wrote:
the advancements in AI are so fast that regulators havent had enough time to react to it, im cautiously optimistic that within a few years it will be normal for powerful AI in games, i mean look at what they are doing with starcraft, the journey has already begun

You should have a read of the EULA... the legal document you agreed to when you started playing. Particularly the part about botting and automation.

[EDIT] CCP is not making any grounds in the ways you are thinking. They have no interest in it.


didnt ccp just recently announce they started creating smarter npc's and more advanced ai?

That's for NPCs.

There's no natural language processing or any automation that players can use.


what makes you think ccp doesnt have interest in ai when the rest of the world is all-in on it, you have made some strong statements about it, you seem so sure of it
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#10 - 2017-05-23 02:40:12 UTC
sisterofeve6 wrote:
what makes you think ccp doesnt have interest in ai when the rest of the world is all-in on it, you have made some strong statements about it, you seem so sure of it

Because the DEVs, to this day, continue to ban anyone who uses automation tools.


And I agree with the general sentiment that AI automation of player actions should not be included in a game.

Why you ask? Well...

- what is the point in playing a game in the first place when you can literally have a computer play for you?

- in certain situations, it isn't fair to other players who don't (or can't) use automation and AI programming.
sisterofeve6
Doomheim
#11 - 2017-05-23 03:32:16 UTC
Thank you for the info, its appreciated. well at this point im just speculating and nerding out about the subject of ai, i dont really have anything of value to add to the topic.

i'll make a little prediction about the adoption of ai. if what i've heard from you guys is correct, then ccp's next move might be to take things slow with AI and maybe do something with it in a few years after others have pioneered AI in games like starcraft, once the regulatory rules are set and others game developers have started to make things, then ccp might create a new game from the ground up with some powerful ai in it, alternatively if they want to be more bold put powerful ai NPC's into the main game (even more powerful than what they are planning now).

You tell me if my prediction is totally off.

in the case of speech recognition I guess deep down what everyones wish is that "it just works", I mean if you want to warp you can just say "warp", simple natural language, just like in the movies.
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#12 - 2017-05-23 04:56:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Rawketsled
I think you're totally off base.

There's no regulatory requirements for videogame AI. Nobody is holding back CCP other than themselves. And you're now starting to talk about a hypothetical non-Eve game in the Eve forum.

You seem pretty excited by the buzzword 'AI' but you haven't really displayed any tangible understanding of the current state of things.

Eve is a MMO. It's a game about people interacting with each other. Having very smart/intelligent NPCs diminishes that, and turns the game into an online single-player game. The day CCP turns Eve into that is the day that everyone quits.


You need to spend a month reading /r/learnmachinelearning.


[EDIT] If NLP was added to Eve, what's to stop me from running 30 accounts and having them all follow my spoken word? Eve would then become a battle of who can run the most clients. That's not a game anyone wants to be in.
sisterofeve6
Doomheim
#13 - 2017-05-23 05:23:12 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:
I think you're totally off base.

There's no regulatory requirements for videogame AI. Nobody is holding back CCP other than themselves. And you're now starting to talk about a hypothetical non-Eve game in the Eve forum.

You seem pretty excited by the buzzword 'AI' but you haven't really displayed any tangible understanding of the current state of things.

Eve is a MMO. It's a game about people interacting with each other. Having very smart/intelligent NPCs diminishes that, and turns the game into an online single-player game. The day CCP turns Eve into that is the day that everyone quits.


You need to spend a month reading /r/learnmachinelearning.


[EDIT] If NLP was added to Eve, what's to stop me from running 30 accounts and having them all follow my spoken word? Eve would then become a battle of who can run the most clients. That's not a game anyone wants to be in.


thank you for enlightening me on the subject, i do appreciate it even if things were implied about me as an individual for some reason inbetween the lines. but i do think you bring up a good point about running 30 accounts, i would have loved to discuss that further but i guess its just you and me here for now, live to fight another day
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2017-05-23 14:35:28 UTC
Erm... Hypothetically, does it count as automation if you use alternative method of input, namely voice recognition software this thread mentioned in the beginning? Provided, of course, that you don't bind anything that isn't a single action already available through game client?
sisterofeve6
Doomheim
#15 - 2017-05-23 15:30:40 UTC
if that software still exists, you can probably find voice recognition software on eve forums, they have a special section dedicated to third party tools. I do hope they have updated its accuracy at picking up voice commands, cuz in real life they have pretty much nailed it and you can speak pretty naturally

"hey google, warp, and then kill that dude in the cheapest frigate you can find on my overview"
Rhaegon Aesir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2017-05-23 15:41:29 UTC
sisterofeve6 wrote:
"hey google, warp, and then kill that dude in the cheapest frigate you can find on my overview"


Man, the AI required to process and execute a command like that would have to be approaching near-sentient levels...
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#17 - 2017-05-23 23:45:30 UTC
Rhaegon Aesir wrote:
sisterofeve6 wrote:
"hey google, warp, and then kill that dude in the cheapest frigate you can find on my overview"


Man, the AI required to process and execute a command like that would have to be approaching near-sentient levels...

Not really.

There are already NLP models that know how to identify verbs (warp, kill) and qualifiers (cheapest, frigate) in text. Connecting these things to in-game actions is the only Eve-specific thing that needs to be done.

After all, Burger King can make every Google Home in America start talking about the ingredients of a Whooper Burger.