Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Wait, what? You're literally telling me straight up that newspace is only content for the elite 1% of eve, and everyone else can go **** themselves. Wew lad, did you even think about this at all before you wrote it? "Of course the large groups are going to mob it and win every time, newbies and literally anybody without the skills to fly a Titan and multiple accounts might as well just stay home and not even try." Man, I thought you were at least trying to make some decent content for EVE players here, but you're straight up just asking for the rich to get richer and the rest of us to get ******.

Dude. In literally every other area of space, you can start as a day 1 newbie and do things. Mining, exploring, hauling, missions, etc. Except your new space. **** all the alphas and the subcap pvpers and literally everyone without the resources and skills for a Titan. They aren't welcome in this space, this space is only for titan pilots and their friends. How entitled must you be to demand content and ccp dev time for things that 99% of the game will never touch or see?

You know what will happen in your space? The large null groups will sweep in, eliminate the competition, and min-max it to the point where it won't even last a month before it gets supernovad. 99% of eve won't even bother to go visit your space since it serves absolutely no purpose, because as you said yourself, if you don't have multiple accounts for cynos, a large null group to back you up, and the skills to build and fly a Titan, there is literally no point to even try, since everything will just explode after a month.

Sure, maybe some wide-eyed space minecraft wannabe like you will go try their luck. You'll soon find yourself frustrated however, as your "T1 fit griffin" gets repeatedly blobbed and evaporated by Goons and PL running around with 100+ griffins. And then you finally somehow manage to make it up to a battleship 3 weeks later, and you're feeling pretty good about yourself, and then suddenly everything explodes because, surprise, Goons figured out how to min-max and game the system like literally every other aspect of EVE.



Doesn't matter what it is. If it is anything even mildly worth obtaining then I guarantee you that the large groups will just farm it to oblivion. Just look at the price of pirate battleships right now. They're supposed to be rare, but they are farmed to the point where they are almost cheaper than their T1 counterparts. Don't tell me that you can create an item that is somehow super valuable and then not expect large groups to just roll over everything and everyone to farm it.



So it's designed to be content for that 1% elite of eve to make them even richer. Big group comes in and wipes everyone out, gets shiny, rinse and repeat. What about the rest of us? Is it just "Too bad, you don't get to have fun" for everyone else?

Also, what makes you think anyone will even set up production and open up a market? That means competition for the shiny, and that's bad. No, nobody will sell you things, groups will hoard resources to themselves and you'll find yourself constantly in a shitfit t1 frigate searching for the blueprints and minerals you need while large groups blow you up with 100 properly fitted t1 ships.




In THEORY, yes, sure. A lot of things sound good on paper. In theory it was a good idea to make CONCORD tankable too, and look where that got us.

The reality is that, while YOU might not have access to a seeded market, and will be stuck in ****** frigates, Goons will already have an entire network going, and they will share modules and parts between them for maximum efficiency. Then they'll come around with 100+ ships and absolutely wreck your tiny little refinery and frigate, and now youre back to 0 while their power snowballs. That's the reality.



There are already plenty of challenges in EVE, just because this one is different does not make it good.


IN CONCLUSION: If you absolutely MUST make current space even emptier, and you just HAVE to split the playerbase even further, at least do it in a way that doesn't simply turn it into a new farming grounds for null blocs. As it stands, you want an entire new area of space that is only feasibly accessible to 1% of eve. It is nothing more than your "Minecraft in Space" fantasy, and a huge "**** you" to everyone who isn't a titan pilot in a giant null bloc. NO THANK YOU.

No, that's pretty much precisely the opposite of what I said.

You keep doing this strawman argument thing, taking things sideways, then complaining that things are sideways. Yes, if you take something, interpret it in a stupid fashion, it's quite easy to point out that the interpretation is stupid.

I'll try and spell it out. AGAIN. Please TRY and pay attention this time? Rather than responding to each paragraph separately?

Everyone jumps in in pods, and starts with T1 gear once they build it. A newer player won't be going up against T2 hulls with full T2 modules right away. Everyone will be running around like chickens with their heads cut off, trying to get T1 gank squads going, or whatever, to kill everyone else before they can do the same. A little distance will help here, perhaps some un-built gates? I'm not sure on the exact numbers that would work best. Perhaps this new area plays a little more loose with blueprints, and players can use pirated-copy blueprints or something (cheaper in the new area only, more destructible, and probably ultimately doomed anyway.)

And a noob in a Venture will be VERY USEFUL, rather than useless. Everyone is gonna need lots and lots of minerals, even to start.

You also said that nobody will do it. Then you said that the large nulls groups will all swoop in and do it. Which is it? And if they're all off doing it, what's going to happen to any Sov space they own? If people threaten that, it'll likely pull some back.

This is not just a race to board a titan. No, you have to build a T1 support base. Then you have to build planetary infrastructure to get goo. Then you have to get a Citadel made, probably. Then you can start on the real production, moon mining and all that fun stuff. Then, once you've got a good industrial base, you can start supercapital construction.

All while everyone else who sees anyone ahead of them tries to sabotage their stuff.

Titans. T2 stuff. Construction. Various other things. Sure, you're gonna need a few high-skill guys to fill those slots. But those guys are gonna need a LOT of stuff to do it.

You made one good point: it's entirely possible that one large group will try and monopolize it. Since that happens so often in nullsec, what with it all being owned by one massive alliance. Except for that it's NOT all owned by one alliance, is it? People don't work together, and I'm fairly certain they can't.

Besides, each of these groups is going to want to get the objection out, whatever it is. Many people could make a LOT of ISK by just selling them materials. The carrot at the end is the introduction of limited BPOs for stuff, rather like the old T2 BPOs, except this is determined by effort (or $$ invested in PLEX, I guess...) instead of by random. And to get it, who knows how much ISK people would invest, to get materials that they can't just freighter in from trade hubs? Or maybe some other shiny. It doesn't really matter, does it?

So which is it? Is it going to be mobbed by large alliances, or ignored completely? Sure, people are going to go around ganking. Are you suggesting that the current system in EVE is all about fair fights? (Spoiler: at least a couple of the fights in EVE today weren't very fair. I know this because I am psychic, maybe.)

Can you please point out where I'm strawmanning you? You proposed an idea, I show you what will happen if your idea becomes reality, and why this is a bad thing. You yell "STRAWMAN" without pointing out where the strawman is, and think that somehow makes your idea better. ???

I was going to go through your whole paragraph again but since you asked nicely I'll just respond to a few main points.





...

Do you want to know why the entireity of Null isn't owned by a single entity? It's because there are 3524 Null-Sec systems in EVE.

Do you plan to add 3524 new systems to your newspace? If you do, your idea has far more problems than I originally thought.

Also, if you knew anything at all about Nullsec politics, you would know that it is largely dominated by 3-4 big groups, and everyone else is either subservient to or allied with, these large groups. Hell, up until the big World War Bee, it was pretty much TWO groups.




Do you even play the game? Giant alliances with 10s of thousands of players fly together with fleets consisting of hundreds of the largest and most expensive ships in the game...and you want to tell me that players "can't" work together?




BPO's are, by definition, unlimited. T2 BPO's caused one of the biggest scandal's in EVE's history. You don't want to go there, trust me.




You're...you're completely missing the point. NEITHER of those are good outcomes, but they ARE the only possible outcomes.

Either your space is attractive or it isnt. If it is, it will be blobbed and pointless for most of us. If it isn't, nobody will use it, and it'll have been a gigantic waste of dev time.

See, here's the thing you don't understand. I get that you want to create a level playing ground, a fresh start, like the original days of EVE. The problem is, that groups are ALREADY established, unlike the early days of eve, where it was a complete clusterfuck. People didnt know how the game worked, people didnt trust each other, it was the wild west. But you can't recreate that now, even if you wipe the entire EVE server. People know how things work, they have things figured out with mathematical precision, they trust each other and they work in large groups which communicate outside the game.

So you tell me, how its a good thing if it gets mobbed by large alliances? And tell me, how is it good if it gets ignored almost completely? Or explain to me how there is some middle ground, because if there is one, I sure don't see it.

OP, go back to WoW and never come back to EVE.


http://i.imgur.com/mXyupD1.gif

So your new points, let me get this straight, are:

Something different would be bad, simply because it is different.

I have to nail everything down in stone, or it is automatically bad, as well. Leaving wiggle room for tuning and balancing is unacceptable.

Additions to EVE are bad, because they would be new stuff.

I don't really have much of a response to this, other than to just outright disagree. I think that something entirely new would shake things up, and hopefully interest people who are bored with the same old stuff. I think that if CCP nails it down properly, it could be balanced, and even iterated, as it can be reset and changed in each incarnation. I think that new stuff can be good.


I know that people will jump on any specific numbers that I state, and use them to find reasons why stuff won't work. And apparently, if I don't cite specific numbers, it's just as bad. If something is new, it is bad. If something is not new, it is boring, and therefore bad. If something is added to EVE, that is bad. If nothing is added to EVE, that is again boring, and bad.

At least CCP gets paid for dealing with this nonsense.

Lol, thanks. I think something like this whole thing would hopefully be self-limiting.

In that, a lot of players simply wouldn't bother, since they'd be down to T1 frigates for a while, AND most of the stuff there is doomed.

But a lot of people could. If the usual suspects couldn't summon up the interest, that would leave the door open for everyone else. And all you're risking is a single, no-implant pod, and your time. Of those things, the most expensive is the time. (well, unless you're taking in super-expensive implants, if so, RIP your ISK. )

That, and prices would fluctuate wildly, people would need a lot of basic materials, and unless they work together more or less, nobody would really get ahead. The new area could see cheap "pirated" blueprints, without screwing up the larger game balancing. Venture-loads of ore could be incredibly valuable to people who are trying to build infrastructure, and money would change hands.

That, and if it fails, it can be reset and retuned, or just scrapped without breaking the rest of the game.

Or... yes, 500 organized people could pwn everything. C'est la vie, but has EVE ever been about making sure all the fights are fair?

Reading the title is sufficient to call it a trash idea.

Congratulations, I think you might be the first person to actually come up with a constructive response lately!

Makes a lot of sense, for getting there. But even if people can carry corvette-loads back, that's a hole, and EVE players basically take ANY hole and run with it. If anything in the new area was unbalanced to make build-up easier, it shouldn't be brought back, so that it can't mess up the main areas.

And of course, none of this should be jumpable by any capitals, except for leaving. Like building a special stargate and using it to jump a built capital out, but this destabilizes every sun in the area. (Hence why it's killed by any pirate, empire, or anyone, in known space.)

As far as linking, I didn't suggest anything, simply because I'm not even sure myself. Like I put in the OP. Having static wormholes between systems, and the ability to build gates sounds nice. That way, you need to build up to scanner frigates to leave a system, and can invade with small ships, but you would need to build actual stargates to send larger ships anywhere.