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Absolutely Obliterated
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CloakAndDagger Insidious

SoE Roughriders

Electus Matari

Likes received: 0

#1 - 2017-05-16 14:09:02 UTC

So, I'm pretty much brand new here, to eve I mean. I've moved out of my merlin to a cormorant, partially because its a better ship, partially because it looks *So Cool*.

Anyways, I made up a fitting, 4 150mm Scout railguns(Tungsten), 3 Limited light Ion blasters(Antimatter, swapped to uranium for added range)(I have the blasters in order to shoot down drones and fight anybody that gets close enough to hit me), and a missile launcher(Nova). I had a webifier 1, disruptor , and a 5MN microwarpdrive. Finally, I had a Damage Control 1 and a Magnetic field stabilizer, and as far as rigs go I had 2 to give myself more shields and one for more capacitor, everything is T1 because I'm a free to play scrub.

I challenged a fellow in a minmitar destroyer to a duel and I got absolutely smashed. It's fair to say that its because I forgot to turn on my microwarpdrive or webify him, but I dont know that that was the only reason I got smacked as hard as I did so I was hoping for some insight on my fitting. Thanks.

Roci Nantes

Perfusus Sanguine

Pandemic Horde

Likes received: 71

#2 - 2017-05-16 14:50:16 UTC | Edited by: Roci Nantes

Well, looking at your zkill.. you picked a fight with a t3 destroyer in a new bro fit t1... he could beat you to death with a single gun cycling...

Learning the ship tree and picking better fights will help in the long run.. there was quite literally nothing you could have done to kill him.. unless he unfit it and went afk..

I now realize that wasn't the most helpful..

My suggestions... go back down to frigates and practice there.. you are going to lose a lot of them and it will save your wallet if you do so. Just because you can fly something does not mean you "should".

https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Cormorant - use this and play to the strengths of your ship.

https://zkillboard.com/ship/16238/losses/ - This is the zkill losses for the ship you flew.. take a look at the fits to get an idea of how people use them. You can look at the kills as well. Look for the fights where they 1 v 1 something to get ideas on targets.

You split your guns, which in general is a bad thing. If you want to be a brawler then do blasters.. all blasters.. if you want to be a rail kitter do that.. but all rails... There is no reason to be using missiles on that ship... it has no bonus to them at all.

If you are really interested in pvp, there are a lot of corps that will take you under their wing and help turn you into a killer.

CloakAndDagger Insidious

SoE Roughriders

Electus Matari

Likes received: 0

#3 - 2017-05-16 16:07:02 UTC

I split my guns because I had the unfortunate experience of getting blown up by someone in an amarr ship running drones, so I figured that having some teeth for close range combat wouldn't be terrible.

Anyways, Is there any reason that splitting weapons is bad? I nuderstand that my DPS at optimal range goes down but if im staying 30 km away and orbiting at max velocity I figure that I should just be able to chunk targets from far away and have it not matter...

Roci Nantes

Perfusus Sanguine

Pandemic Horde

Likes received: 71

#4 - 2017-05-16 17:27:02 UTC

Eve is very rock paper scissors... It is about picking the fights you can win, making sure that the fight is in your favor. On the other hand, everyone else is doing the same thing.

If you split your guns and run into another kiting ship... even if you would have been evenly matched now a large portion of your dps is missing and you loose... When some blaster fit ship gets under your guns you are not going to be doing enough damage to kill them before they get you.

Jack of all traits, master of none generally translates into you losing fights against everyone who is specializing in something.

You also have to remember... that other pilot could be some 125mil sp pvp monster that has been doing this for five or more years. Even if your ship "should" beat theirs they can turn that on you by just understanding the game at a deeper level. So hurting your self by having a non-conventional build could lead to frustration.

Owen Levanth

Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration

Likes received: 584

#5 - 2017-05-16 17:27:40 UTC | Edited by: Owen Levanth

CloakAndDagger Insidious wrote:

Oh no, splitting weapons isn't bad, there's always a chance your enemy will start laughing so hard he'll be incapacitated.

Now back to serious mode, never split weapons!

The reasons for why splitting weapons is bad, as short and fast as possible:

1. Regardless of the engagement range, with split weapons you'll always waste a huge amount of DPS, since one half of your weapons are always useless.

2. Having split weapons makes trying to stay at optimal range for your weapons a completely futile effort, with a normal fit you'll often do at least a little damage to the other guy. With a split fit you'll waste a lot of time trying to decide which one of your weapon systems you should try to get into range.

That said, drones are mostly a support weapon, so if you have drones and guns, or drones and missiles, it doesn't really count as a split weapon system. Otherwise though, never do this.

Eleanor Roscommon

Bleu Femme Felis

Likes received: 37

#6 - 2017-05-16 18:02:44 UTC

C&D,

Lots of good answers so far.

In what you've said on your fit, despite the fact you went up a T3 destroyer, your dps is bad, and so is the tank. That's why you sent down so fast.

All these next numbers are for perfect skills, so your numbers will be less:

The 150s with tungsten only have 46dps, being able to shoot out to 50km, is ineffective.
The blasters with uranium have 80dps, but they only can hit within about 6km. If your opponent stays out at 12km, you can't touch in. So now you have only 4 guns firing doing 46dps .
The missile only adds about 11dps. Every little bit helps, but in this case it really doesn't.
Your shield resists are too low, and with about 6000ehps, you're not going to last very long.

With your sp, using a Cormorant to brawl in is not a good choice. ( I do love the new design.)

If you went with 7 125mm protos, with Caldari antimatter, your dps (with perfect skills) would jump to about 190 dps, and your optimal is about 15km. That is better than what you had, and should hit drones. But your tank still suffers.

If you changed you rigs to 2 x anti-em screen, and 1 x anti-thermal. Your resists will be better, and your ehp would be about the same. Before, using a cap rig, with the mwd on, your cap would only last about 2min. With the rigs I mentioned, your cap would be less, and last about 1-1/2min.

So, maybe at this time, a Cormorant may not be a good choice.

Alaric Faelen

Republic Military School

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 513

#7 - 2017-05-26 14:58:53 UTC

I have to agree, don't split weapons. You can split weapon groups but that is a different thing.

Eve ships are not like real warships which carry batteries of various sized weapons to deal with differing threats. Eve ships are optimized to pretty much just fire broadsides of identical guns. It's just the game design. We also live in a meta that favors high alpha damage, so you want maximum impact from your guns, even if that impact is dulled by things like shooting at smaller ships, transversal, etc.

Drones are the weapons in Eve that are meant to scale (usually downward, but in some cases upwards such as a cruiser dropping BS sized heavies). This mostly boils down to carrying lights for frigates.

There are also EWAR drones to consider. They aren't as popular as just adding more DPS, but you can use web or painter drones to make a target easier to hit with your main battery.

Ships with no drones at all tend to use small class weapons, designed to shoot frigate/destroyers already. For those ships, you can increase application thru modules and rigs. You may have to sacrifice some tank to get there. Risk/Reward.

Room for Improvement Good Sax 294
Blade Darth Room for Improvement Good Sax Likes received: 294	#8 - 2017-05-27 03:33:18 UTC Alaric Faelen wrote: web or painter drones There is a higher chance of seeing a rocket propelled unicorn than someone using those. Omen Navy Issue Tutorial

Owen Levanth

Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration

Likes received: 584

#9 - 2017-05-28 07:42:19 UTC

Blade Darth wrote:

Alaric Faelen wrote:

web or painter drones

There is a higher chance of seeing a rocket propelled unicorn than someone using those.

Someone in a Maller used web drones against me once, back when the Venture was brandnew and I was trying it out by stealth mining in LowSec. It took less then 5 minutes of mining before said Maller took some time out of his busy schedule to visit me.

But in the end I still got away, it just took like 2 attempts more because the drones made me slip back into scrambling-range several times.

Keno Skir

Likes received: 1,727

#10 - 2017-05-28 11:11:08 UTC

Owen Levanth wrote:

But in the end I still got away, it just took like 2 attempts more because the drones made me slip back into scrambling-range several times.

Did the Maller have a 3 strength faction scram?

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---

Owen Levanth

Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration

Likes received: 584

#11 - 2017-05-29 17:11:20 UTC

Keno Skir wrote:

Owen Levanth wrote:

But in the end I still got away, it just took like 2 attempts more because the drones made me slip back into scrambling-range several times.

Did the Maller have a 3 strength faction scram?

Probably, since he actually scrambled me a couple times.

Kitty Bear

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,626

#12 - 2017-05-31 11:52:10 UTC

Blade Darth wrote:

Alaric Faelen wrote:

web or painter drones

There is a higher chance of seeing a rocket propelled unicorn than someone using those.

It's a good indication of their overall effectiveness (from inception & possible over-nerfing coz whiney crybabies(a.k.a. pvp'ers)).
Combined with their easy destructibility.

@ Op

In pvp you want all your weapon to have characteristics as similar as possible to each other.

ie ..
- if you're fitting for long rang sniping a webifier doesn't suit what you're attempting to accomplish as it's a short range e-war module on most platforms
- you want to be able to apply as damage as possible with each successful shot, having each weapon be exactly the same as the others helps achieve this

always remember
whatever you plan for/to do
the first point of failure is 'contact with the enemy'

and even if you're dying in a fireball ... try to keep having fun


Alaric Faelen Republic Military School Minmatar Republic Likes received: 513	#13 - 2017-05-31 22:26:59 UTC Quote: There is a higher chance of seeing a rocket propelled unicorn than someone using those. --I didn't say they were good, just that it's a possible option. Eve has many ways to accomplish similar things-- in theory.

Project Fruit House 436
Toobo Project Fruit House Likes received: 436	#14 - 2017-06-01 12:30:05 UTC Yes paper rock scissors is the way game works most of the time. But I think most fun I've had were rock vs rock fights XD Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Ships & Modules

SoE Roughriders

Electus Matari

Perfusus Sanguine

Pandemic Horde

Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration

Bleu Femme Felis

Republic Military School

Minmatar Republic

Room for Improvement

Good Sax

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Project Fruit House