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What do you anticipate the market price for PLEX to adjust to?

Author
Sungas
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2017-05-13 19:48:44 UTC
I am surprised to see both sell and BUY orders for the old price. Or is PLEX not sold in groups of one?

Someone give me a lesson here.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#2 - 2017-05-13 20:05:08 UTC
in the short run probably about where it was, might dip up or down a little, probably dip down a little when all those outstanding small AUR balances get converted to plex. in the long run up, always up. way too much isk in the game

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Sungas
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2017-05-13 20:24:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Sungas
Perhaps there is too much ISK in the game.

But resolving it in a fair way is rather crucial.

This sandbox is about empire building. Do you go about punishing those that have successfully built an empire? Do you demonstrate to newcomers that the end result from years of dedicated work is a punishing tax? Do you rob great effort and time spent, because the mechanics of the economy were not designed to accommodate human nature?

Or do you provide meaningful options for empire builders to spend their acquired wealth? I'll answer that. You spend acquired wealth by getting ships blown up. If you aren't getting ships blown up then you aren't performing the intended wealth sink.

I'll tell you how you can fix the economy and create a wealth sink.

Item decay. https://pathfinder.space/2012/12/star-wars-galaxies-crafting/

The same item decay we saw in Star Wars Galaxies. You would see flourishing commerce, robust market channels, and thriving "startups".

I suspect you would see a new interest for Alpha clients transitioning into Omega clients as well. Further, the first credible justification for the implementation of PLEX.

How can one believe there is too much ISK in the game when PLEX is marketed to......bring more ISK into the game? Or in reality, transfer existing wealth to people that financially contribute to the health and prosperity of EVE ONLINE.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#4 - 2017-05-13 20:42:28 UTC
The price of PLEX has been constant as long as I can remember - $19.99 for 1 old or 500 new PLEX, with occasional sales and volume discounts. The exchange rate for ISK is determined entirely by the player markets - supply and demand. As long as more people want to buy PLEX with ISK than the other way around, the price of PLEX denominated in ISK will rise.

Put another way. If there are more players who want to pay their subscription with PLEX than players who want to sell PLEX for ISK to fund their gameplay, the in-game price of PLEX will go up.

Short term, the Aurum conversion should depress the price a bit. 2 million per new PLEX is equivalent to 1 billion for the old PLEX. I expect it to trade in the 2-2.5 million range once it settles down.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2017-05-14 06:27:48 UTC
There are several misconceptions in OPs posts. PLEX does not inject ISK into the sandbox, it rather removes small amounts due to trade fees. When PLEX is traded, ISK moves from one player wallet to another, that's it. Also it's a common misunderstanding that blowing up ships destroys ISK, it does not but injects ISK into the game via insurance payout. The ISK already paid to the manufacturer of the ship is not harmed upon destruction of said ship.

Anyway, I have no clue what this thread is about ... whining about too high PLEX prices?

I'm my own NPC alt.

Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#6 - 2017-05-14 07:22:52 UTC
SW: Galaxies is probably the worst example to follow. Only thing good about that game was it's name. "item decay" in eve is named pvp. On long enough scale every player built item will be destroyed.

We need more war and people doing industry instead printing isk. They need to balance. Atm. they are not. I'm not calling for bounty nerfs (as it would hurt the newbros in VNI's like a hammer), people should feel like it's their own decision, not being forced to.

Mining and producing ships should be fun (interactive) and make about as much isk as carrier farming. And hard/ impossible to multibox so people don't box a mining fleet AND play a carrier at the same time.

I prefer a lot of small skirmishes over one blob 3000 vs 1000 war but either works if ships sell and economy keeps going.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2017-05-14 09:12:59 UTC
So buff mining, nerf ratting ...Lol

There are only few ISK sources in the game, bounties, blue loot, missions/incursions, insurance ... rest is neutral, i.e. only moving ISK around from one player to another.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#8 - 2017-05-14 10:04:32 UTC
PLEX is the fundamental currency of EVE.

Now the PLEX:ISK exchange rate? I expect that to trend up, from the present ~1.3b per month, as a larger % of the playerbase get more and more efficient at creating ISK.

There are two moments I expect the exchange rate to fall back down, hard, but I will keep those to myself.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Sungas
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2017-05-14 11:17:21 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
There are several misconceptions in OPs posts. PLEX does not inject ISK into the sandbox, it rather removes small amounts due to trade fees. When PLEX is traded, ISK moves from one player wallet to another, that's it. Also it's a common misunderstanding that blowing up ships destroys ISK, it does not but injects ISK into the game via insurance payout. The ISK already paid to the manufacturer of the ship is not harmed upon destruction of said ship.

Anyway, I have no clue what this thread is about ... whining about too high PLEX prices?



Ahh...the inherent cynic.

Where every misunderstood post is interpreted as a "whine".
Whether it is or isn't.

Do you commonly play the antagonist role?


Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2017-05-14 11:23:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
Sungas wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
There are several misconceptions in OPs posts. PLEX does not inject ISK into the sandbox, it rather removes small amounts due to trade fees. When PLEX is traded, ISK moves from one player wallet to another, that's it. Also it's a common misunderstanding that blowing up ships destroys ISK, it does not but injects ISK into the game via insurance payout. The ISK already paid to the manufacturer of the ship is not harmed upon destruction of said ship.

Anyway, I have no clue what this thread is about ... whining about too high PLEX prices?



Ahh...the inherent cynic.

Where every misunderstood post is interpreted as a "whine".
Whether it is or isn't.

Do you commonly play the antagonist role?



Yeah, it's more fun most of the time. Blink

Seriously, you talked about "resolving too much ISK in the game" and were then talking about destruction or obsolescence of stuff .. which do not fit together.

I'm my own NPC alt.

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2017-05-14 13:45:37 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
So buff mining, nerf ratting ...Lol

There are only few ISK sources in the game, bounties, blue loot, missions/incursions, insurance ... rest is neutral, i.e. only moving ISK around from one player to another.


When I first started playing the game PLEX prices were around 250 Million. The point at which I noticed PLEX prices start heavily ticking upwards was after incursions were introduced. The isk made while in space from incursions is pure server created isk. Yes you get LP payouts like missions do but there is no loot and nothing worth salvaging so an hours spent running incursions is an hour of pure isk creation.

At the time that incursions were introduced there was a lot more reason to loot and salvage missions so a good portion of the in space time was spent doing something that earned you isk from other players. With repeated loot nerfs, the reprocessing nerf, the introduction of things like the Noctis and MTUs much less in space time is being spent doing stuff which earns isk from other players. Therefore a higher percentage of isk generating time is spent generating server created isk.

So from my perspective if you want to combat mudflation in this game you'd need to introduce more activities where players can earn isk from other players and nerf streams of income which generate new isk.

Of course isk sinks figure into this as well. I never used aurum so I'm not sure how this new system affects pulling isk out of the game through sales of vanity items but maybe someone else can comment more on that.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#12 - 2017-05-14 14:39:15 UTC
Aurum got merged with plex and it's an isk neutral operation. Isk price in addition to plex price for cosmetic items could serve as a sink supplement.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#13 - 2017-05-15 03:33:31 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
So buff mining, nerf ratting ...Lol

There are only few ISK sources in the game, bounties, blue loot, missions/incursions, insurance ... rest is neutral, i.e. only moving ISK around from one player to another.


When I first started playing the game PLEX prices were around 250 Million. The point at which I noticed PLEX prices start heavily ticking upwards was after incursions were introduced. The isk made while in space from incursions is pure server created isk. Yes you get LP payouts like missions do but there is no loot and nothing worth salvaging so an hours spent running incursions is an hour of pure isk creation.

At the time that incursions were introduced there was a lot more reason to loot and salvage missions so a good portion of the in space time was spent doing something that earned you isk from other players. With repeated loot nerfs, the reprocessing nerf, the introduction of things like the Noctis and MTUs much less in space time is being spent doing stuff which earns isk from other players. Therefore a higher percentage of isk generating time is spent generating server created isk.

So from my perspective if you want to combat mudflation in this game you'd need to introduce more activities where players can earn isk from other players and nerf streams of income which generate new isk.

Of course isk sinks figure into this as well. I never used aurum so I'm not sure how this new system affects pulling isk out of the game through sales of vanity items but maybe someone else can comment more on that.



You know what did a lot to reverse the excess money supply?

Blueprints being seeded at appreciable fractions of a trillion ISK.

Here's hoping that there are longer copy and build times on the drilling platforms so more of the BPOs are needed. That will increase the value of ISK and so result in less ISK being needed to buy a PLEX.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

DrButterfly PHD
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#14 - 2017-05-15 10:41:53 UTC
Replace rewards fir all isk printing activities with a different type of lp. This would reduce inflation and also autonatically bakance the rewards for various activities. As one activity gets easier and more popluar, the lp to isk exchange rate would shift and that activity would become less profitable.

Works well for faction warfare.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#15 - 2017-05-15 18:58:28 UTC
Blade Darth wrote:
SW: Galaxies is probably the worst example to follow. Only thing good about that game was it's name. "item decay" in eve is named pvp. On long enough scale every player built item will be destroyed.

We need more war and people doing industry instead printing isk. They need to balance. Atm. they are not. I'm not calling for bounty nerfs (as it would hurt the newbros in VNI's like a hammer), people should feel like it's their own decision, not being forced to.

Mining and producing ships should be fun (interactive) and make about as much isk as carrier farming. And hard/ impossible to multibox so people don't box a mining fleet AND play a carrier at the same time.

I prefer a lot of small skirmishes over one blob 3000 vs 1000 war but either works if ships sell and economy keeps going.

I mean right now we have too many people doing industry, even with all the extra isk in the system prices still go down. the CPI is pretty much at it's lowest point and the isk supply at the highest.

Tipa Riot wrote:
So buff mining, nerf ratting ...Lol

There are only few ISK sources in the game, bounties, blue loot, missions/incursions, insurance ... rest is neutral, i.e. only moving ISK around from one player to another.

they buffed mining and then nerfed it several times, see the rorqual. It was injecting way too many minerals into the system. It currently mines a bit over 30% of all minerals.

DrButterfly PHD wrote:
Replace rewards fir all isk printing activities with a different type of lp. This would reduce inflation and also autonatically bakance the rewards for various activities. As one activity gets easier and more popluar, the lp to isk exchange rate would shift and that activity would become less profitable.

Works well for faction warfare.

I mostly like this idea, still need some isk faucets as with only isk sinks eventually there wont be any isk in game. 92% of bounty prizes are from nullsec Just converting that to LP would be lp market suicide. I think there also need to be better ways to convert that lp, I think people should be able to make their money where they live, needing to jump from null to highsec to convert lp sounds like a huge pain in the butt.

I guess one of my big problems with it all is established players can make around 200m/hr with incursions, carrier ratting, or burner missions, the plex price could be 2bil and it wouldn't hurt me too much. newer players are making what 50m/hr on the high end? When I was a newb plex was around 4mil/day now its 40.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Memphis Baas
#16 - 2017-05-15 22:45:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Eh, nevermind, you already know about the faucets vs. sinks chart.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2017-05-16 00:08:26 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:

92% of bounty prizes are from nullsec Just converting that to LP would be lp market suicide.

I agree with this.

Before we had minerals as an isk transfering income source rather than isk creating. The Rouge Drone faction used to pay only minerals via drone poop. We already have plenty of things paying out LP. Also I understand why CCP has nerfed mining with guns. Maybe we need to start thinking of entirely new methods of dropping usable stuff from NPCs.

To me the key really is tipping the balance of time spent in isk generating activities versus the time spent in isk transferring activities.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Rexxar Santaro
Forex Corp
#18 - 2017-05-16 09:41:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Rexxar Santaro
Most players here are skilled with many years of experience.

I don’t like the rhetoric to just simple buff or nerf some game mechanic. It should be balanced otherwise will break the game mechanic and people will just stop playing. I’m offering to implement a new game mechanic which will normalize it and the Sungas’s example about goods decay timer is not so bad.

The zkillboard and last Monthly Economic Report March 2017 explains the problem very well.

In my opinion, the problem is: “Players started to fly just toooo safe”.

Tipa Riot wrote:
So buff mining, nerf ratting ...

There are only few ISK sources in the game, bounties, blue loot, missions/incursions, insurance ... rest is neutral, i.e. only moving ISK around from one player to another.


Holy molly!

Compared to old times the current mining with ORE ships is buffed to its limits. Better buff the high-sec mining only, because high-sec mining on a Venture is just a suicide compared to EVE standards.

Bounties are the main source to gain some starting capital in this game without plexing it and without grinding hi-sec mining for weeks.

The blue loot is not the core point. It can’t be a source of high isk/hour influx and this is very like mining or PI mechanic. After this activity, you get some stuff which you can sell or not – you do not get isk directly. An example about DED loot. During some Sunday, I spent like two hours of clearing combat anomalies after that I got two expeditions: one to high sec and other to a far deep low-sec system. From the first one I got a 10M ISK ded loot and from another I got a 70M ISK Centii A-Type loot. I spent on those expeditions addition two hours with a lot of risk passing those “jungles”. The last stuff I can’t sell until today. During this time, I made more isk on missions lvl III and PI. Just nerf it and I personally will never do it due to explained factors and market will rarely see some blue stuff. I don’t believe that corp/alliance CEO’s will grind that by themselves or other industrialists or traders. So corp miners and other employees will left their duty to grind that stuff for their top ships mostly. Something similar will happen if the exploration and ratting will be nerfed – no datacores and sleeper components.

No need in mission nerfs. Maybe in mission LP to ISK nerf mechanic. Can have an unknown impact on gameplay: more or less datacores to the market orders. For example, I bought a Hoarder to deliver XX thousands of projectiles, missiles and hundreds of drones (my skills let me use only these squishy only) to my mission stations.

Nerfs to Incursions – maybe. Are incursions so poplar nowadays?

I think the insurances should be nerfed. Based on that economic report they have a great influx into in game finances.

The graph Production vs Destruction shows that production is 3 time higher (3 T) than destruction for years. During the last 6 months, it is 5 time (4.5 – 5 T) higher (maybe some war preparation). This and zkillboard shows that only PVE players (exploration ships, mining barges, Machariels, Tengus, Rattlesankes, Hel carriers) and gankers are participating in EVE economy. The big corporations and alliances have lost comparative little and at the same time they are gaining huge assets with null-sec grinding. What I saw in few videos about corp brawls – they are using some little fleets of cruisers and BC and rarely BS. Total worth of their fleet can be the same as the worth of a well fitted Hel Carrier or two. This is an Alliance level…

The graph Summary of Key Economic Figures by Region is the evidence of my words. Most destruction happened in The Forge (2.8 T) and The Citadel (1.9 T) due to suicider activity. The Providence (1.7 T) and Catch (2.5 T) are known as regions with gate camping mechanics and, of course, there are many little corporations and alliances which made some brawls. Other regions controlled by big alliances are not presented even. For example: Tribute (342 B), Paragon Soul (313 B), Delve (1,151 B), Deklein (654 B), Fountain (573 B).

The graph Money Supply is amazing 😊

So, we can’t force players to go and blow up their billion ships because we need some fine graph curves. Moreover, alliances are joined in some shadow coalitions and players just don’t want to risk too much. The idea of decay timer on goods, especially ships, is not bad. It can change the game significantly. It will require a better logistical game and will not let players to grind null-sec resources to build unlimited number of ships hidden somewhere. This will put the intel and spying games back to a new level of importance, because we can’t have built unlimited number of ships but we should know the appropriate number of ships into our opponent possess to balance the forces. The old ships you will sell to a reduced price, reprocess of destroy in some battles for fun.

Also, let the alpha clones to drive one or two T2 frigate and one mining barge at least. Because they with their limited T1 crap can't made some serious impact on EVE economy.

Finally, the price of PLEX (500 PLEX) always will be normalized (anticipated) to average ISK amount made through ISK/hour of in game mechanic during a month. So, new players will grind for a half plex/month while advanced players will grind for two-three plex/month no matter what are they doing.
Alasdan Helminthauge
AirHogs
Hogs Collective
#19 - 2017-05-17 01:13:06 UTC
Rexxar Santaro wrote:
The blue loot is not the core point. It can’t be a source of high isk/hour influx and this is very like mining or PI mechanic. After this activity, you get some stuff which you can sell or not – you do not get isk directly.


I know some people making hundreds of million isk per hour through wormhole ratting, and they're not like mining or PI. Though you need to sell blue loots on market to make actual isk, you sell them to npcs instead of other players (or maybe you sell them to another player and then he sells them to npcs).
Tanuki Kittybeta
Ripperoni in Pepperoni
#20 - 2017-05-18 04:35:49 UTC
i have a theory that plex will always be around 10 days worth of isk making on average.
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