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Sure you don't mean 2011/2012?


And why not explain what you liked particularly about them over the rlml

Starting to feel like a consensus in here :: it wass definitely not the Range that's the issue, and certainly not the re-load times which already feel punative ir the Rapid launchers -- the heart of the issue seems two fold -- the rapid Light missile launchers are just too easy to fit on the Caracal/Cerb/Orthrus line, making those ships too much of a powerhouse -- so change the fitting abilities of those ships to mitigate it -- not the weapon systems. and on the 2nd front -- the poor application of heavy missiles

You've already worsened the reloads on All Rapid launchers (which was un-needed to begin with not being the actual problem) -- and your buff, such that it is, to Heavies DMG is fairly pointless since they just can't apply w/o a ton of work.

Lastly, this notion that cannibalizing the flexibility of ships larger than our beloved Dessies is somehow a good idea feels like rubbish. Leave pilots the ability to fit their ships based on their piloting needs -- if they want to fit a 'smaller' weapon system, let them, they already sacrifice its hull bonuses for damage. I like, for example, having a battle ship with Rapid Heavies -- it allows them to go brawl with gangs of smaller ships.

Best regards all!

Pretty much all missiles require some kind of application mod to apply full damage to a same-tier target.

Light Missiles aren't the problem, and Light Missiles on Frigates are pretty well balanced overall. The issue with RLML ships is that they can basically just nuke most smaller hulls, reload rinse and repeat because they have a much higher burst damage than normal Light Missile Launchers.

Well apart from increasing the . fitting costs of RLML to like 100 pg each your only other reasonablr recourse is to nerf light missile stats. I've been out of the loop for frigate pvp a while but I'd never suggest that lights needed an application mod to work properly. I'll have to graph it in pyfa when I get home tonight.

Boost heavy missile damage by another 5percent while we're at it. Not that long ago the volley damage for heavy missiles and fury lights was almost identical... with fury lights still applying better.

That would probably work too, but it might harm the Caracal and Bellicose a bit much, but it would be fine IMO on the Orth and cerb, which both fit just so much tank relative to the damage and application they push out, a fitting compromise would be very nice on those.

Really though, the bellicose is already a terrible ship, doesn't paint as well as a vigil (optimal range bonus on TPs FTW) doesn't really have the PG for an armor tank, and doesn't have the slots to fit EWAR and a solid shield tank, can't lock far enough to be a decent fleet painter, and has almost no chance of fitting HAMs or HML without being useless at it's EWAR role. So, I don't really mind throwing the bellicose under the bus if need be, it is already not used often.

another batch of changes that will further skew the faction war LP market to Gallente's favor.

still not touching the Navy Vexor but you're going to nerf the Navy Osprey back into oblivion again, no changes to the useless navy caracal either. why don't you just give galmil free victory points and isk every time someone spins a ship in a station.

Velocity rigs, missile computer, missile TE all exist to resolve the issue you have with range. You sacrifice some tank or damage, which is fair. You dont need 350dps and 40k EHP to kill an inty now do?

Also, corax, kestrel, flycatcher. They all have range/application bonuses for light missiles. Maybe use those to blap inties instead of a caracal, orthrus, cerb?

Navy drake has more than 1 good fit. HAM navy drake is just fine.

Bellicose, scyfi and other RLML platforms that don't have a velocity bonus have often fit 1-2 velocity rigs and work fine at hitting faster moving ships. Sure the snaked, max speed exodus inty will still prob outrun their missiles, but there will always be outliers. Bring a hyena or other web ship if you need to counter those.

Scyfi and nomen are navy cruisers, i'd expect them to have more tank than a t1 caracal. A caracal can just sit ontop of another t1 cruiser and do more damage and have a better tank with a long range weapon that applies perfectly. If you catch the typical anti-support nomen with a scram, its dead. All it has is a single AAR, its not buffer fit. Same with Scyfi, it doesn't have the cap to run an invuln+MWD, so its often run dual LSE with cap booster to sustain kiting. A typical scyfi tank is 32k EHP when kiting with RLML (full tank rigs, tank will be less if you drop a rig for velocity rig).

Scorch nomen and scyfi dps is less or equal to an RLML caracal (before drones), but scyfi has no velocity bonus and nomen is turret based and pretty squishy as is (16k EHP before AAR).

I'm not denying that missile launchers need a proper look at in terms of their fittings, cause torpedo/cruise missiles are backwards in terms of fitting and the rapid launchers need their fittings increased to actually prevent these super high tank fits. I'm just stating that the velocity bonus not applying isn't the end of the world. Other ships have been using velocity rigs just fine to compensate.

What i'm saying about the navy drake is that the RLML fit isnt the only PvP fit being used. HAM fit exists and works fine at applying to frigates. It potentially could work as a decent HML kiter with heavy buff (i'm trying to be optimistic) that comes at same time. HAM and Heavy fits remain unchanged and will be getting a buff, RLML loses 25% range, which you can easily recover with missile computer or rig+MTE variation if its that big of a deal.

in terms of the amount of lp spent navy cruisers are the most important market, and until the nosprey changes caldari had two absolute lemons that were practically useless. the nosprey became one of the best navy cruisers after the changes but still nowhere near the navy vexor... and now it gets nerfed while the navy vexor never gets touched? you think this is balance?

4300 navy vexors were destroyed in april. that's ~200billion worth of gallente LP flushed
650 Navy Ospreys destroyed in the same month. that's ~30billion worth of caldari LP flushed

the frigate market isn't as big as cruiser market but again gallente comet dominates the hookbill. both ships are popular since the hookbill got a damage buff but hookbills are still only used half as much as comets

in april 3153 comets were destroyed = 31billion isk worth of gallente lp flushed
same month 1857 hookbills lost = 19billion isk worth of caldari lp flushed.

the navy ewar frigates see about the same amount of usage, while navy battleships are pretty much irrelevant to the fw economy because they make up a tiny part of the LP destroyed, although caldari have 2 of the more useful it makes little difference. similar with navy battlecruisers, they're just too expensive to justify the cost in most pvp situations.

you can say loads of every caldari ship all over the place, but thats the reality. Caldari LP doesn't need more nerfs