Ships & Modules

I've been inspired to make this thread in relation to some other threads elsewhere talking about AF's getting new roles etc. I don't think that new "roles" are especially needed in a game that already has specialised niche ships. What new role could an AF even possibly have? The game has mechanical limitations to it not just in terms of ship interaction but server structure as well, this is why the proposed "flak cannon" AF's idea will never work. Even if you could program them to be this way, they just simply wouldn't work at an architectural level.

So instead I'd rather approach AF's from a different angle. The goal of this thread has 3 simple objectives.

• To delineate functionally good assault frigates vs functionally poor ones.
• To propose highly specific discussion about individual ships regarding their strengths and what weaknesses they may have
• To generate lists for ships which prove the above points but with a simple caveat: the fit of modules cannot be more than 2x the value of the hull. Ergo a 30mil hull is allowed 60mil of modules. Extra points are awarded for fits that go 1:1 or better. You will lose points for not using modules that conform to the ships native bonuses. That means shield tanked armour bonused ships lose points. It means a laser rokh loses points. You get the idea.

So I'll go first. Starting from the top, using pyfa as my analysis tool:


So with some of these modules the prices that come up in pyfa are a bit off. This is the best well rounded fit I personally could come up with for a 'reasonable' budget. The reppers themselves are actually overcosted here, you can get them much cheaper.

Some vitals to analyse - 166hp/s tank / 201hp/s with exile. 211 dps with rage rockets. Neuting pressure. Combined price in pyfa is 52mil.

Some commentary I'd like to drop at this point is that this ship just screams for more PG. It only needs 1 more pg to be an actually useful ship, which would allow you to just use t2 reppers which are cheaper yet again. This fit actually technically doesn't work. It is 55.36 pg available and it needs 55.4 meaning you need 0.04pg to make even a basic fit with some faction gear work. I don't find this acceptable at all. Either that or continue to downgrade and downgrade equipment until the ship becomes worse than a t1.

So let's get some discussion rolling, anyone make a better vengeance fit for cheaper? Any input on this specific hull? I think it's really important to discuss these things and get some numbers popping out because CCP do actually act on strong evidence when something is wrong.

Why would you pay 24 million for a Vengance when you can buy a Confessor or Jackdaw for 35 million? In what scenario is the Assault Frigate a better choice?

That's the viewpoint you need to approach any rebalance discussion. AFs are not independent entities - they exist as part of an ecosystem and they can't compete with T3 destroyers. They need a new niche.

Afs are **** even without t3ds. Its not like t3ds are actually a thing in fw lowsec anymore anyways. Afs are to slow, they cant beat kiters and they arent good enough brawlers to compete with t1 cruisers or similar.

A comet will 1v1 most afs, and even if it doesnt win it can always get away.


A AF is basicely a t1 dessie in performance for pretty much everything, the extra speed and sig reduction is meaningless in battles vs ships that are smaller then cruisers. And ever since the t1 cruiser redesign afs cant beat cruisers and up anyways.

I still fly AF's and love them. Sure a t3 dessie is the thing. But sometimes the old AF rocks. Maybe stop worrying about the numbers nd learn how to fly your ships!
Some fun fits:

[Hawk, Skelee VI's Hawk]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Phased Scoped Target Painter
Warp Scrambler II
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster,Navy Cap Booster 50
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster,Navy Cap Booster 50

Rocket Launcher II,Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II,Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II,Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II,Mjolnir Rocket

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

[Vengeance, Skelee VI's Vengeance]
200mm Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
IFFA Compact Damage Control
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer,Nanite Repair Paste

5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Faint Epsilon Scoped Warp Scrambler
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier

125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet EMP S
Rocket Launcher II,Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II,Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II,Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II,Inferno Rage Rocket

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I

Nope. Only if you wanna support fleets, they're not good for much else. What to train into depends what you wanna do.

No... but if you like AF's there might be other ships you'll like a lot more. Combat fit interceptors (as opposed to tacklers) are very fun. So are T3 Destroyers. Both might be a lot more enjoyable for you than the AF.

That's kind of the problem. It's not that AF's suck, but there are other ships at the same price point that do everything an AF does... only better.

Too many variables to qualify that argument!
If a frig gets nailed by a hurricane does more tank really matter? anything under 10,000 ehp is dead in seconds.
Screw isk factor, look at the fun factor. I still fly facton frigs, inteceptors ... all fun to fly. Picked up fully fit Retribution for 25 mil! I will get lots fun out of that one.

Being that my primary hobby (when not engaging in hijinks with other alliance members) is to annoy and provoke mission runners into trying to murder me, the assault frigate is pretty much my go-to vessel of choice.

In particular I prefer the Ishkur of Fantastic, fit in classic Lords of Midnight fashion.
The enyo is nice too, but what it gains in firepower it loses in versatility.

Ishkur of Fantastic

Lows:
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Small Armor Repairer II

Mids:
1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Small Capacitor Booster II (Navy Cap Booster 150)

High:
Light Ion Blaster II, Fed Navy Antimatter(drones) or Void S(shiny things)
Light Ion Blaster II
Light Ion Blaster II
Small Gremlin Compact Energy Neutralizer

Rigs:
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Drones:
Hobgoblin II x10 OR x5 and Acolyte II x5

With a set of Halos this little monster packs a signature nearly as small as a light drone, smaller if you want to get drugs involved. It has a tough enough tank to be able to weather incoming fire from a mission runner's entire pocket AND their blingship at the same time... all the while delivering the death of a thousand cuts to their shiny pimpmobile.

The ability to field two full flights of bonused light drones gives it the versatility to keep the primary target on lockdown while blueballing or outright melting outside help that may come to rescue the princess. Well, usually. It's not an 'I win' guaranteed, but so long as you're not trying to take on a Rattlesnake solo with one it can seriously ruin someone's day.

I also love the Comet, but that's a story for a different thread.

That^
Everyone thinks Enyo is a monster. Make a fit for example Enyo, so you can fit a high utility and a couple Mag stabs.
If you wanna fit it with 150mm rails to take just for fun to missions..... then the fun starts, you must leave empty slots.
There are AF that can barely fit guns and a rep. Shame.