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If we are going down the microtransaction rabbit hole... 24 hour Omega
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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2017-05-10 18:16:53 UTC
Since there seems to be no turning back at this point and you are hell bent on being a microtransaction game like other F2P games, could you do us the decency and treat VIP time like those games.

You can usually buy 24 hour VIP time in those games for much less than $20. By my calculation if we just use the $20 as the sample, then 24 hours of Omega should cost $0.67.

I don't really need to train skills at this point and if I did I'd just buy skill injectors.

So I've been thinking of canceling my subs at the end of the year, but I wouldn't be opposed to playing every other weekend. So I'd just buy the 3 days when I want to play. So say 34 or so odd PLEX per day.

To make it simple, just sell the blocks of 500 for $20 and we'll just use the PLEX as needed.

Otherwise, I'd probably stop spending money on game time as I'm not as motivated to play 24/7 as I used to and I'd just play other games who least like me micro my time like World of Warships, Heroes and Generals, and Warthunder. Also shoutout to Tiger Knight which keep giving me free VIP.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2017-05-10 18:49:57 UTC
So I can activate my cyno alts for one move, then let them lapse again. I'll never need to plex another one.

Also, my super alt can activate for one fight, then lapse. I'll never have to plex it again.

Also my industry alt can activate for one hour per day, swap jobs, then lapse again and stretch a single plex for years.

Also my PI alts can activate for one hour every two weeks to cycle extractors



Need I go on?
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2017-05-10 18:58:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Simple solution. And I know CCP will love this... Make more activities require active omega time rather than passive.

Honestly, PI and Industry should require active Omega time. I have abused this greatly myself with industry jobs.

Small price to pay.

Also all those activities can be currently abused with the current system. I mean good lord I got plenty of 90 day research going on.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2017-05-10 18:59:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Danika Princip
Oh, so I only need to never buy plex for any of my cyno, super, fax or leadership alts again.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2017-05-10 19:01:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Danika Princip wrote:
Oh, so I only need to never buy plex for any of my cyno, super, fax or leadership alts again.


Make it so that if you are in a ship that you need omega to fly but currently are alpha. Then reduce shields to 0 and disable all modules. That should solve a lot of problems.

Shield to 0 is a bit harsh, maybe just make all modules turned to off.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2017-05-10 19:03:47 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Oh, so I only need to never buy plex for any of my cyno, super, fax or leadership alts again.


Make it so that if you are in a ship that you need omega to fly but currently are alpha. Then reduce shields to 0 and disable all modules. That should solve a lot of problems.

Shield to 0 is a bit harsh, maybe just make all modules turned to off.


Solves nothing if you're in a big group, supers and titans can dock in keepstars, fax can dock in anything bigger than an astrahus, cyno and boosting ships can do whatever they want.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2017-05-10 19:05:05 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Oh, so I only need to never buy plex for any of my cyno, super, fax or leadership alts again.


Make it so that if you are in a ship that you need omega to fly but currently are alpha. Then reduce shields to 0 and disable all modules. That should solve a lot of problems.

Shield to 0 is a bit harsh, maybe just make all modules turned to off.


So log in and activate the account to Omega, problem solved. Even if you logged in space you'll likely be Omega before you drop out of e-warp.

No, this sounds like a good idea for making money, but chances are it won't work that way unless you structure it so that doing this is far more expensive than just being Omega all the time...in which case why even bother?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2017-05-10 19:05:26 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Oh, so I only need to never buy plex for any of my cyno, super, fax or leadership alts again.


Make it so that if you are in a ship that you need omega to fly but currently are alpha. Then reduce shields to 0 and disable all modules. That should solve a lot of problems.

Shield to 0 is a bit harsh, maybe just make all modules turned to off.


Solves nothing if you're in a big group, supers and titans can dock in keepstars, fax can dock in anything bigger than an astrahus, cyno and boosting ships can do whatever they want.


Wait. Are you telling me that you can light cynos and fly a titan with an alpha account?

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2017-05-10 19:08:03 UTC
No, I am saying that I can keep my titan docked up in a keepstar until I need it, plex it for an hour or two, then dock it back up again.

And scatter my cyno alts to the wind, plex them for an hour wen I need them, then let them lapse again.


Meaning that I can purchase one plex and then literally never give CCP a penny again for half a dozen accounts.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2017-05-10 19:11:45 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
No, I am saying that I can keep my titan docked up in a keepstar until I need it, plex it for an hour or two, then dock it back up again.

And scatter my cyno alts to the wind, plex them for an hour wen I need them, then let them lapse again.


Meaning that I can purchase one plex and then literally never give CCP a penny again for half a dozen accounts.


Ok. But that was the point. You only need these accounts when you need them. Not pay for time you aren't using.

Think of it like this... If a bored titan pilot was not getting out to a fight except maybe once every three months for a weekend, why make him pay for the entire month. It would save him money. And chances he will spend more money than just quitting. Also if you may spend more money on overall alts.

Also since its less, more people overall would spend more money (its an economics thing. you can actually earn more money in certain cases by lower the price that more people of other economic bands can now afford).

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2017-05-10 19:14:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Since there seems to be no turning back at this point and you are hell bent on being a microtransaction game like other F2P games, could you do us the decency and treat VIP time like those games.

You can usually buy 24 hour VIP time in those games for much less than $20. By my calculation if we just use the $20 as the sample, then 24 hours of Omega should cost $0.67.

I don't really need to train skills at this point and if I did I'd just buy skill injectors.

So I've been thinking of canceling my subs at the end of the year, but I wouldn't be opposed to playing every other weekend. So I'd just buy the 3 days when I want to play. So say 34 or so odd PLEX per day.

To make it simple, just sell the blocks of 500 for $20 and we'll just use the PLEX as needed.

Otherwise, I'd probably stop spending money on game time as I'm not as motivated to play 24/7 as I used to and I'd just play other games who least like me micro my time like World of Warships, Heroes and Generals, and Warthunder. Also shoutout to Tiger Knight which keep giving me free VIP.


So let me see....CCP should let you play 3 Days a month for $2 or else they'll lose your $11/month (assuming you buy a whole year in advance, if not then $15).

Never mind that alot of veterans will basically follow your lead. LIke me. I might let accounts I use lapse except when I need to use them. So right now CCP gets about $486/year for 2 accounts I PLEX. I could, under plan switch to $122/year. CCP is out $364. They get $24 from you, and $122 from me, vs. nothing from you and $486 from me.

Really, really bad idea.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2017-05-10 19:19:32 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Since there seems to be no turning back at this point and you are hell bent on being a microtransaction game like other F2P games, could you do us the decency and treat VIP time like those games.

You can usually buy 24 hour VIP time in those games for much less than $20. By my calculation if we just use the $20 as the sample, then 24 hours of Omega should cost $0.67.

I don't really need to train skills at this point and if I did I'd just buy skill injectors.

So I've been thinking of canceling my subs at the end of the year, but I wouldn't be opposed to playing every other weekend. So I'd just buy the 3 days when I want to play. So say 34 or so odd PLEX per day.

To make it simple, just sell the blocks of 500 for $20 and we'll just use the PLEX as needed.

Otherwise, I'd probably stop spending money on game time as I'm not as motivated to play 24/7 as I used to and I'd just play other games who least like me micro my time like World of Warships, Heroes and Generals, and Warthunder. Also shoutout to Tiger Knight which keep giving me free VIP.


So let me see....CCP should let you play 3 Days a month for $2 or else they'll lose your $11/month (assuming you buy a whole year in advance, if not then $15).

Never mind that alot of veterans will basically follow your lead. LIke me. I might let accounts I use lapse except when I need to use them. So right now CCP gets about $486/year for 2 accounts I PLEX. I could, under plan switch to $122/year. CCP is out $364. They get $2 from you, and $122 from me, vs. nothing from you and $486 from me.

Really, really bad idea.


You are missing the point. More people would be willing to pay $1 a month than $20. So say if 1000 people who have quit decide to activate their titan accounts for a day that is still $1000 more dollars than CCP would have otherwise. Those people who you say would have been paying $20 now would only pay $2 a month is simply not true because otherwise if they weren't using those skills then they would be selling skill injectors would could offset the overall price of their subscription.

Also if people weren't forced to train 30 days a month then it would drive up skill injector prices because the supply is low due to less people training and the demand would be high because the people who were not training now have to buy skill injectors which also drive up the demand of PLEX to buy those.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Tessa Sage
Long Pig Luncheon Meat
Sending Thots And Players
#13 - 2017-05-10 19:41:14 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Simple solution. And I know CCP will love this... Make more activities require active omega time rather than passive.

Honestly, PI and Industry should require active Omega time. I have abused this greatly myself with industry jobs.

Small price to pay.



Don't be ridiculous, there is an additional 2% tax on Industry jobs that alpha clones pay.
zombielook
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2017-05-10 19:59:19 UTC
so here is where your 24hrs for a dollar goes off the rails.
I can and do buy a 1 year sub for the unholy price of $131.40. (apparently roughly 1/4 of the price of plexing two accounts in Teckos Pech's example, just sayin, not judgin' )
there are 8740 hours in 365 days.
that works out to around $0.02 per hour, rounded up. ($0.015).

which seems to be about $0.36 for 24hrs.

so for your $0.67 per hour I can nearly run two accounts at Omega for pretty much the same price.
this would also give me 4 or 5 characters to farm extractors on using the 3 extractor/month = 2.1B isk (at the current rates)*4 characters 8.4b/Mo - 3.6b for injectors = 4.8b isk for just flipping skills every now and then.
netting out to 57.6b isk a year.

for 219,011,406isk per $1 vs the 60m isk for you $1 worth of plex.

holy crap I think I just convinced myself to get a second sub. I spend more than that once a month if the wife and I go to dinner.
Hell if you are only playing 1-3 days a month. You could probably farm 5 or 6 chars for even more.

nevermind, just ignore this post. I thought $0.50 a day for a re
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2017-05-10 21:40:53 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:


You are missing the point. More people would be willing to pay $1 a month than $20. So say if 1000 people who have quit decide to activate their titan accounts for a day that is still $1000 more dollars than CCP would have otherwise. Those people who you say would have been paying $20 now would only pay $2 a month is simply not true because otherwise if they weren't using those skills then they would be selling skill injectors would could offset the overall price of their subscription.

Also if people weren't forced to train 30 days a month then it would drive up skill injector prices because the supply is low due to less people training and the demand would be high because the people who were not training now have to buy skill injectors which also drive up the demand of PLEX to buy those.


Those number are just made up and you are ignoring that 1,000 other players might decide to go "spot Omega". So based on the numbers CCP gets $1,000 and loses $182,000. Net loss, -$181,000. You would need a ration of like 200-to-1 for this to work. 200 players start logging in as “spot Omega” for every 1 “monthly Omega” that goes “spot Omega”.

And you have it wrong on people sell SP to PLEX accounts. Every PLEX in game (pretty much) came from somebody spending $20. It does not matter if Danika spent the $20 and I buy it from her for ISK and then use it to extend my account. It is still $20 in CCP’s wallet . Plexing an account is not “free game play” contrary to the popular view. I am exchanging ISK I have spent time accumulating with those who do not have ISK, but were willing to spend $20 to get a PLEX. CCP still gets the $20.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Luc Chastot
#16 - 2017-05-10 21:46:18 UTC
This thread reads like someone trying to justify a suggestion that benefits them greatly by placing CCP in a bad light.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Tessa Sage
Long Pig Luncheon Meat
Sending Thots And Players
#17 - 2017-05-10 22:20:22 UTC
zombielook wrote:

which seems to be about $0.36 for 24hrs.


With two accounts you're looking at $21.90 monthly USD which CCP probably figures is their best deal for customers. Pay-as-you-go requires outside financing that in gaming can be ridiculously tight.

What you may want to consider is an in-game push for an outside crowdfund effort. Give CCP the principal, and they disburse the right amount for affiliated parties to source and sell these mini-timecodes.
Cade Windstalker
#18 - 2017-05-10 22:44:10 UTC
So, first off, most of those games that you're talking about have users requesting the ability to buy time in hourly increments, and the devs are never going to give it to them. The reason is because any small increase in revenue it might create would be offset by all the users buying smaller increments of time than they did previously. The only way to offset this is to basically make a few hours cost almost as much as a day, and that's a PR disaster.

Eve has a bit of that (in the form of older players who don't care about SP training) along with the abuse-case of things like Cyno alts where the ability to quickly and easily Omega a character for a day only serves to make it much easier to gain a substantial advantage, and thus run more alts for even more of an advantage for the same cost.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2017-05-10 23:12:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Cade Windstalker wrote:
So, first off, most of those games that you're talking about have users requesting the ability to buy time in hourly increments, and the devs are never going to give it to them. The reason is because any small increase in revenue it might create would be offset by all the users buying smaller increments of time than they did previously. The only way to offset this is to basically make a few hours cost almost as much as a day, and that's a PR disaster.

Eve has a bit of that (in the form of older players who don't care about SP training) along with the abuse-case of things like Cyno alts where the ability to quickly and easily Omega a character for a day only serves to make it much easier to gain a substantial advantage, and thus run more alts for even more of an advantage for the same cost.


There is that too. If I am used to spending $X/month and running N accounts I could still spend $X and run N+M accounts where a subset are now usually Alpha until I need them to be Omega.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Lugh Crow-Slave
#20 - 2017-05-10 23:47:21 UTC
Not 4 hours before you posted this am identical thread was made. I mean I'm used to redundant posts but when the one you were looking for was on the front page

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble