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A GM's guide to Alpha clone re-balancing
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hog butter
Romex Inc.
#61 - 2017-05-06 18:10:43 UTC  |  Edited by: hog butter
Linus Gorp wrote:
hog butter wrote:
I am not sure why it wasn't canceling it but it wasn't. So not only am I getting my $0/months worth I am actually recuperating money CCP absconded with in my opinion

Should have submitted a support ticket.


It occured a couple times I submitted a couple tickets. Each time we went back and forth with GM emails on one of the instance they granted me several thousand skill points a pittance of the time lost as I recall. I gave CCP an opportunity to not screw me they declined. This is why I have been gone since late 2014.
hog butter
Romex Inc.
#62 - 2017-05-06 18:52:11 UTC  |  Edited by: hog butter
Vokan Narkar wrote:
hog butter wrote:
5. Drone skills unlocked for Minmatar Logistics Drones and Medium Drones. Unlock Heavy Drones for Gallente .

Wait,. Wait. How is no access to the heavy drones "point of imbalance" ? No alpha clone has acces to heavy drones regardless of faction so where do you see inbalance?

I agree that alpha clone should not have a skills restricted per faction.

Give all alpha clones the same skills. Fixes 1,2,4.

However if this is done, something needs to be done wíth skill extractors. Currently each faction alpha clone get around 5mil SP when fully trained and the skill limit to extract SP is 5.5milion. Unlocking all skills across facrions will increase the total SP alpha clone can get and therefore skill extractors needs to be handled somehow. Or do they??? Alpha skill set cannot be extracted unless character is omega. And train current 5mil SP takes 5 months already. Idk...


This was suggested earlier as a point of imbalance. They are saying Alpha's should get accesses to those skills. They didn't offer any argument. I threw it out there to see what more experienced players though their was any credibility to this assertion. Let me also be clear balance doesn't mean the exact same it means that no faction is strictly disadvantaged from any other faction. Put another way if two Alpha clones do battle the fit and tactics (not withstanding chance) will be the determinate factor of the battle not which faction they are(game theory this is the envelope). This can mean the skills aren't the same that would be good for the game in my opinion. Once again the difference must be balanced as well meaning no "I win no matter what" advantages. The second point of imbalance is in my opinion one of these very big advantages to big of an advantage overall(distorting the envelope for Alpha vs Alpha comparison). You feel this is the same for the Drones? I want to know if their is any reasoning to give them these skills as suggested earlier.

If I were CCP the best way to handle extractors is to have them decay. Guess what New Eden has a new virus that has swept all corners of space this virus contaminates skill injectors. I feel Alpha's shouldn't be able to extract skill points yet. If i were CCP I would have Omega clones virus decay any skill injectors kept in hangers will have a decay rate 1 SP/30 secs.
hog butter
Romex Inc.
#63 - 2017-05-06 19:00:03 UTC  |  Edited by: hog butter
Marika Sunji wrote:
El Geo wrote:
Alpha's play for free so in theory more alpha's means more content right?

I personally would like to see some sort of specialization points system, where alpha's get a certain amount of SP to specialize into more areas for example covert ops ships, fitting their ships with t2 gear or even other races ships, similar to the attribute system with a remap once a year.

Remember, more people, more content which in turn makes more people, content...


Except more omega->alpha transitions means less money, less dev time, less patches, and game servers eventually shutting down. Why is it so hard for certain people to understand that businesses need to make money, and dangling around most of the cool stuff just out of reach is the damn point since it's an incredibly effective marketing tactic. "I want free this, give me free that, but I will never, ever pay you for it." How entitled is that?

Now, you'll probably respond with "But Marika, we're only asking for small QoL stuff." Except you, well, aren't? The ideas floating around this thread seem to mention giving alphas access to everything except maybe capitals. Now I do not want to argue a slippery slope here, but most ideas mentioned here would be totally gamebreaking and make many people downgrade, because why pay if you can get the stuff for free.


These are all good points but this is literally the first person to make an articulations that wasn't thinly vailed antagonism.
I would say the big thing here is Theta or time in this equation. I think it's foolish to give all Alpha's these things right now or maybe ever in some cases. Some of these things aren't game breaking and you could give them to Alpha's now. I am saying put your ideas here and lets have healthy discourse. When the trolls come I will club them over the head like the baby care bears they are.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#64 - 2017-05-06 21:06:51 UTC
hog butter wrote:
Ok ill answer yours but then you have to answer mine.
In short you wouldn't have pleasure of reading this if I didn't get my zero dollars per month. BTW can you in your infinite wisdom see you way to parcel off a crumb game time for me and the peasant account brother'n that would be most gracious my lord. *kisses ring*

Long answer is your pajoritive questions is what pass for snarky but really seems sad. Sad
I have paid nearly one years worth to CCP's not cancelling my account after I went into my account via the website to cancel it on several occasions. I am not sure why it wasn't canceling it but it wasn't. So not only am I getting my $0/months worth I am actually recuperating money CCP absconded with in my opinion. I have already told you this in another post I believe. I must be wrong you wouldn't you just spam the forums with the same inane question?

PS
I spend a lot of time trading so I wouldn't be surprised if your corp or yourself has sold or bought something from one of my accounts. Before you attack that I want to say I have around 30 regional buy orders with no competition across my alpha clones and yes at fair prices. As stated before my time spent in the game seems to be of no value to you alas your welcome.

soooo....

are you afraid alpha clones are going to mess with your pretty little space ships you spent so much money on?

Its can be yes or no but answer however you feel fit. Blink


Yeah...you didn't really answer my question. You just kinda said you feel entitled to a game for free. That's a little sad.

I didn't spend "so much money" on anything. I pay out of pocket for multiple accounts. I spend more money on a single round of golf that takes three hours than I do for a month's worth of entertainment with EVE. How on earth can a company survive if people like you want to have it all without paying a dime? If the cost of EVE is too much for you, you should stop playing video games and try to find a better job.

I'm sorry $0.35 per day is too expensive for your budget.
hog butter
Romex Inc.
#65 - 2017-05-06 21:36:54 UTC  |  Edited by: hog butter
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
hog butter wrote:
Ok ill answer yours but then you have to answer mine.
In short you wouldn't have pleasure of reading this if I didn't get my zero dollars per month. BTW can you in your infinite wisdom see you way to parcel off a crumb game time for me and the peasant account brother'n that would be most gracious my lord. *kisses ring*

Long answer is your pajoritive questions is what pass for snarky but really seems sad. Sad
I have paid nearly one years worth to CCP's not cancelling my account after I went into my account via the website to cancel it on several occasions. I am not sure why it wasn't canceling it but it wasn't. So not only am I getting my $0/months worth I am actually recuperating money CCP absconded with in my opinion. I have already told you this in another post I believe. I must be wrong you wouldn't you just spam the forums with the same inane question?

PS
I spend a lot of time trading so I wouldn't be surprised if your corp or yourself has sold or bought something from one of my accounts. Before you attack that I want to say I have around 30 regional buy orders with no competition across my alpha clones and yes at fair prices. As stated before my time spent in the game seems to be of no value to you alas your welcome.

soooo....

are you afraid alpha clones are going to mess with your pretty little space ships you spent so much money on?

Its can be yes or no but answer however you feel fit. Blink


Yeah...you didn't really answer my question. You just kinda said you feel entitled to a game for free. That's a little sad.

I didn't spend "so much money" on anything. I pay out of pocket for multiple accounts. I spend more money on a single round of golf that takes three hours than I do for a month's worth of entertainment with EVE. How on earth can a company survive if people like you want to have it all without paying a dime? If the cost of EVE is too much for you, you should stop playing video games and try to find a better job.

I'm sorry $0.35 per day is too expensive for your budget.


Ok?
So this wasn't clear I am getting me zero dollars a months worth.

Did you even read the post your quoting?

Sonya Corvinus wrote:

How on earth can a company survive if people like you want to have it all without paying a dime? If the cost of EVE is too much for you, you should stop playing video games and try to find a better job.


No one but yourself has suggested this. So is anything less then 15/dollars a month is free and I am a person that wants to game for free? So you obviously haven't read my posts I have paid subscriptions on multiple accounts.

Monetizing EVE for less or more then $15/month is not a crime.

Riddle me this batman how is more hours per dollar a better way to tell me how any game is of higher quality then any other game. What is clear is some bozo had an this idea as of a rubric for understanding value. My opinion is it is impotent as your arguments against my posts.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#66 - 2017-05-06 23:38:31 UTC
hog butter wrote:
No one but yourself has suggested this. So is anything less then 15/dollars a month is free and I am a person that wants to game for free? So you obviously haven't read my posts I have paid subscriptions on multiple accounts.

Monetizing EVE for less or more then $15/month is not a crime.

Riddle me this batman how is more hours per dollar a better way to tell me how any game is of higher quality then any other game. What is clear is some bozo had an this idea as of a rubric for understanding value. My opinion is it is impotent as your arguments against my posts.


Because pay to play has been healthy for other games? It's a death knoll. Again, I'm sorry you can't afford $0.35 per day. I have the names of a few decent corporate recruiters that can help you find a decent job.

You seem to think unlimited entertainment for $0.35 per day isn't valuable. Yes, one of us doesn't understand value. Stop whining.
hog butter
Romex Inc.
#67 - 2017-05-07 02:34:03 UTC  |  Edited by: hog butter
Sonya Corvinus wrote:

Because pay to play has been healthy for other games? It's a death knoll. Again, I'm sorry you can't afford $0.35 per day. I have the names of a few decent corporate recruiters that can help you find a decent job.

You seem to think unlimited entertainment for $0.35 per day isn't valuable. Yes, one of us doesn't understand value. Stop whining.


I don't know what your expecting from a contrarian logic. I guess repeating yourself make you feel better. Dude I understand EVE has done you wrong. It is OK you have friends and people like you bro head up.

Just maybe re-read these post later on when your heads more together and you will be able to gleam some information that eluding you now but I love you...

Please love yourself...

As for me I have a degree in finance and I trade securities. I would venture to say your 're barking up the wrong tree with all this disparaging talk about my work.

I am Alpha by choice. Alpha master race.
grgjegb gergerg
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#68 - 2017-05-07 03:25:58 UTC
hog butter wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:

Because pay to play has been healthy for other games? It's a death knoll. Again, I'm sorry you can't afford $0.35 per day. I have the names of a few decent corporate recruiters that can help you find a decent job.

You seem to think unlimited entertainment for $0.35 per day isn't valuable. Yes, one of us doesn't understand value. Stop whining.


I don't know what your expecting from a contrarian logic. I guess repeating yourself make you feel better. Dude I understand EVE has done you wrong. It is OK you have friends and people like you bro head up.

Just maybe re-read these post later on when your heads more together and you will be able to gleam some information that eluding you now but I love you...

Please love yourself...

As for me I have a degree in finance and I trade securities. I would venture to say your 're barking up the wrong tree with all this disparaging talk about my work.

I am Alpha by choice. Alpha master race.

You decided to go with ad hominem attacks? A daring debate choice.

Sure, people in finance know that they keep more money when they get things for free. You have lots of money, great. Sub the game.

I'm still wondering where the "GM" in the thread title is, and why alpha accounts deserve to be more than a teaser for the omega accounts that CCP needs to stay alive.
El Geo
Warcrows
Sedition.
#69 - 2017-05-07 08:25:36 UTC  |  Edited by: El Geo
Marika Sunji wrote:


Except more omega->alpha transitions means less money, less dev time, less patches, and game servers eventually shutting down. Why is it so hard for certain people to understand that businesses need to make money, and dangling around most of the cool stuff just out of reach is the damn point since it's an incredibly effective marketing tactic. "I want free this, give me free that, but I will never, ever pay you for it." How entitled is that?

Now, you'll probably respond with "But Marika, we're only asking for small QoL stuff." Except you, well, aren't? The ideas floating around this thread seem to mention giving alphas access to everything except maybe capitals. Now I do not want to argue a slippery slope here, but most ideas mentioned here would be totally gamebreaking and make many people downgrade, because why pay if you can get the stuff for free.


An extra 1m or 2m Skill points to distribute as Alpha specialization skills is hardly game breaking and is totally open to debate but I find myself thinking more of new players than current Omega's, I for one would not want to drop to a 6m only Caldari ships Alpha, although returning players may find themselves pulled back into the game should they be able to use alphas more effectively.

Also, the change in PLEX should alter this all considerably.

CDIA Based overlay resource for After Effects 6

Eve pathfinders Youtube
Marika Sunji
Perkone
Caldari State
#70 - 2017-05-07 09:05:05 UTC
El Geo wrote:
Marika Sunji wrote:


Except more omega->alpha transitions means less money, less dev time, less patches, and game servers eventually shutting down. Why is it so hard for certain people to understand that businesses need to make money, and dangling around most of the cool stuff just out of reach is the damn point since it's an incredibly effective marketing tactic. "I want free this, give me free that, but I will never, ever pay you for it." How entitled is that?

Now, you'll probably respond with "But Marika, we're only asking for small QoL stuff." Except you, well, aren't? The ideas floating around this thread seem to mention giving alphas access to everything except maybe capitals. Now I do not want to argue a slippery slope here, but most ideas mentioned here would be totally gamebreaking and make many people downgrade, because why pay if you can get the stuff for free.


An extra 1m or 2m Skill points to distribute as Alpha specialization skills is hardly game breaking and is totally open to debate but I find myself thinking more of new players than current Omega's, I for one would not want to drop to a 6m only Caldari ships Alpha, although returning players may find themselves pulled back into the game should they be able to use alphas more effectively.

Also, the change in PLEX should alter this all considerably.


The SP number is more or less irrelevant here though. It's about specific skills. Allow me to demonstrate: give Alphas cloaks, cynos and full range of t1 cruisers and you'll see that the game balance will be totally fine nothing broken nope.
Belladonna hydrix
Hive Mined
#71 - 2017-05-08 01:27:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Belladonna hydrix
oops
hog butter
Romex Inc.
#72 - 2017-05-08 01:49:49 UTC  |  Edited by: hog butter
grgjegb gergerg wrote:
hog butter wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:

Because pay to play has been healthy for other games? It's a death knoll. Again, I'm sorry you can't afford $0.35 per day. I have the names of a few decent corporate recruiters that can help you find a decent job.

You seem to think unlimited entertainment for $0.35 per day isn't valuable. Yes, one of us doesn't understand value. Stop whining.


I don't know what your expecting from a contrarian logic. I guess repeating yourself make you feel better. Dude I understand EVE has done you wrong. It is OK you have friends and people like you bro head up.

Just maybe re-read these post later on when your heads more together and you will be able to gleam some information that eluding you now but I love you...

Please love yourself...

As for me I have a degree in finance and I trade securities. I would venture to say your 're barking up the wrong tree with all this disparaging talk about my work.

I am Alpha by choice. Alpha master race.

You decided to go with ad hominem attacks? A daring debate choice.

Sure, people in finance know that they keep more money when they get things for free. You have lots of money, great. Sub the game.

I'm still wondering where the "GM" in the thread title is, and why alpha accounts deserve to be more than a teaser for the omega accounts that CCP needs to stay alive.


I don't deserve anything new players do deserve a good gaming experience.

Telling someone I love them is an ad hominem attack? I am not sure how to address the but I guess repeating dumb tired points passes for trolling?

Are your unclear on attack of ones character looks your in luck I can help you out.

Let me illustrate an ad hominem attack:
"Daring choice" You sound so proper I bet you feel like you got me. Argumentum ad hominem comes from Latin to attack one's character....

So if telling someone you love them is an attack on their character? I love you... I love you so good from head to toe. I love you until your left in a puddle of dripping love. Your my little love bucket but you already know my little lover bottom. Did you feel the love? You see I really do love you because being wise and intelligent is not a precondition for receiving my love.

See how that last part was an attack on your character.

I will subscribe but what does that have to do with any of these arguments?

GM stands for Whining Subscribers was that not clear?
hog butter
Romex Inc.
#73 - 2017-05-08 02:10:15 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Personally, I think more navy faction ships in the frigate, destroyer and cruiser level would be useful for Alpha's.

Their current skill ceiling is roughly correct. They just have access to reletively few ships. Navy Faction ships don't require multiple racial ship skills to fly which means everyone benefits from more ships with unique styles of fitting and flying.



I really like this idea upon more thought I am not sure at point this would be fair to roll out. I think this wouldn't break the game and it would expand an Alpha clones options.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#74 - 2017-05-08 03:06:35 UTC
Navy ships are a bad idea because navy ships are not something that new players have access to. A genuine newbie trying to learn the game is not going to have enough ISK to buy a faction ship, and certainly won't have the skills to make good use of a ship that expensive. The only people who benefit from that change would be veteran players trying to find a way to play for free without sacrificing performance, and those people should be paying for omega accounts.
hog butter
Romex Inc.
#75 - 2017-05-08 10:36:19 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Navy ships are a bad idea because navy ships are not something that new players have access to. A genuine newbie trying to learn the game is not going to have enough ISK to buy a faction ship, and certainly won't have the skills to make good use of a ship that expensive. The only people who benefit from that change would be veteran players trying to find a way to play for free without sacrificing performance, and those people should be paying for omega accounts.


Yes no doubt that is for the more experienced player. As the power creep of Omega's increases their could be new ships introduced to the alpha's no? I guess navy ships maybe to powerful for them to be allowed.

What is the harm in a Omega flying a expensive ship without the best fitting? Seems like a good PVP target to me.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2017-05-08 17:04:04 UTC
hog butter wrote:
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Personally, I think more navy faction ships in the frigate, destroyer and cruiser level would be useful for Alpha's.

Their current skill ceiling is roughly correct. They just have access to reletively few ships. Navy Faction ships don't require multiple racial ship skills to fly which means everyone benefits from more ships with unique styles of fitting and flying.



I really like this idea upon more thought I am not sure at point this would be fair to roll out. I think this wouldn't break the game and it would expand an Alpha clones options.



Federation Navy Thorax:
+4% per level hull resists
+10% per level hybrid fall off

Basic stats +50% on hull armour shield HP values
+25% capacitor
+1 low slot.
Vokan Narkar
Doomheim
#77 - 2017-05-08 18:55:11 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
hog butter wrote:
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Personally, I think more navy faction ships in the frigate, destroyer and cruiser level would be useful for Alpha's.

Their current skill ceiling is roughly correct. They just have access to reletively few ships. Navy Faction ships don't require multiple racial ship skills to fly which means everyone benefits from more ships with unique styles of fitting and flying.



I really like this idea upon more thought I am not sure at point this would be fair to roll out. I think this wouldn't break the game and it would expand an Alpha clones options.



Federation Navy Thorax:
+4% per level hull resists
+10% per level hybrid fall off

Basic stats +50% on hull armour shield HP values
+25% capacitor
+1 low slot.

There is already Exequror Navy Issue for that.

And if faction/racial restrictions go away we can get access to 4times more ships without need to create a new ones (which seems as something we cannot really hope even if CPP read this forum Roll)