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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9461 - 2017-05-04 07:09:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Dracvlad wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
That is because I can easily rat with them in local.


And thus you prove that nothing is wrong with AFK cloaking. You know they're AFK, you ignore them, and life goes on. The solution, instead of whining about AFK cloaking, is for more people to figure out how to do this.

Quote:
I cannot interact with them by baiting them and I waste my time in doing so.


You also "waste your time" if they're smart enough to avoid your bait, and from your point of view there is absolutely no way to tell the difference between a player that is AFK and a player that knows you're baiting and declines to take the bait. In fact, how do you even know that you're wasting your time baiting AFK players? You sure seem to be doing a lot of complaining for someone who can't possibly know that the people they're whining about are actually AFK.


You don't read what people post, you just cherry pick to say what you think, that is why you are totally dishonest in every post.

I have explained the issues with AFK cloaky camping and the damaging impact it has, CCP have a de-cloaking wave idea which they will implement, which will deal with AFK if they also police the use of bots to re-cloak. I hope that they use the ban hammer very hard on this.

When I talk about ratting with them in local it is because I know what they have and what they can do, because I gathered my intel on them over time, I know at this point who is active and who is not and that enables me to help keep the ADM's up but the issue is that it is not optimal for ISK generation. That is not an issue for me as I do not PLEX, I pay with real money, so I am not desperate to rat to fund my game.

Baiting them really depends on who you dealing with, some groups you can bait and kill and others like PL you just avoid because of their escalation abilities., of course an idiot like you cannot tell the difference, but that is because you don't do this.

The most amusing part for me is that the cloaky camper with his toons marked with the same name Orcling but with 01 to 10 at the end keeps forgetting to cloak when he rushes off to work and it is rather amusing because from that we got his time perfectly well sussed, Orcling04 was the important one, I sensor damped him for lol.s. Shocked

As I said before with skill injectors it makes it really easy to create a clean character which only incompetence or actual use will expose the intel. So be a smart ass if you want with stupid posts, but the reality is you made yourself look dumb.

Anyway CCP will add the de-cloaking wave and they will not change local, done and dusted, it is really now a question of when will they actually do it.

Back to ignoring your feeble minded troll posts...


Ban hammer....now I know you are talking rubbish.

BTW, the comment about gathering intel on the cloaky campers is something I suggested...IDK...100 pages ago, maybe more.

Really I look at this post and I have to agree with Merin. Dracvlad has demonstrated precisely that AFK cloaking is NOT a problem.

But hey, if he goes back to his bubble the better for all of us.

I predict Dracvlad's response in 5....4....3...2...1....Lol

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#9462 - 2017-05-04 08:00:34 UTC
Xcom wrote:
It takes a very special snowflake to exploit the cloaking mechanic to the point of logging in for months just to stick it to the other guy at the end of the barrel. Why would such a disgusting nolife behavior even be defended. I'm surprised how some people jump to defend quite literally what I would explain as, digital harassment supported by loophole mechanics.

Get a life
and to whoever defends this sick exploit, turn off your pc and enjoy your life, you need it.

You literally don't understand why it came to this.

Instead of whining about something that your carebear kind is responsible for, how about you support the no-local-intel initiative and man the **** up?
Nullsec is a PvP zone, not your personal risk-free carebear heaven.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Rolling on laughing
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9463 - 2017-05-04 08:00:48 UTC
Why not these :

- An infrastructure which puts particles in the sun which marks cloakys

functions :
- Infrastructure placed -> cloaky needs to do jump in a special interval (in the system) to get rid of these particles
, could work with the ADM (better ADM = higher frequency of jumps needed), infrastructure needs fuel
- T2 CovertOps frigs doesn´t appear in local (like in a WH)
- The cloaky ships can be probed down if marked, they don´t need to be decloaked on it´s own (active part for defender)

Ideas behind this:

- Active playing > passive playing
+ Scanning down claokys may be possible, when AFK
+ ADM rising security against AFK cloakys
+ Permanent costs for defender, passive defender get no improvement
+ even bigger difference between co cloaky (warp claokes) and normal cloak (can´t warp when cloaked)

This would hit only AFK cloakys, gives the Recon a huge advantage of beeing an real invisible ship., to work with cyno or give the location of the target without beeing seen.
Flying attacks in co style works everywhere, you need active playing on both sides (gatewatch, scan-patrols)





Proud member of NOTHING
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#9464 - 2017-05-04 08:01:27 UTC
Linus Gorp wrote:
Xcom wrote:
It takes a very special snowflake to exploit the cloaking mechanic to the point of logging in for months just to stick it to the other guy at the end of the barrel. Why would such a disgusting nolife behavior even be defended. I'm surprised how some people jump to defend quite literally what I would explain as, digital harassment supported by loophole mechanics.

Get a life
and to whoever defends this sick exploit, turn off your pc and enjoy your life, you need it.

You literally don't understand why it came to this.

Instead of whining about something that your carebear kind is responsible for, how about you support the no-local-intel initiative and man the **** up?
Nullsec is a PvP zone, not your personal risk-free carebear heaven.


Back to mindless insults, who would have thought that...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#9465 - 2017-05-04 08:40:00 UTC
Rolling on laughing wrote:
Why not these :

- An infrastructure which puts particles in the sun which marks cloakys

functions :
- Infrastructure placed -> cloaky needs to do jump in a special interval (in the system) to get rid of these particles
, could work with the ADM (better ADM = higher frequency of jumps needed), infrastructure needs fuel
- T2 CovertOps frigs doesn´t appear in local (like in a WH)
- The cloaky ships can be probed down if marked, they don´t need to be decloaked on it´s own (active part for defender)

Ideas behind this:

- Active playing > passive playing
+ Scanning down claokys may be possible, when AFK
+ ADM rising security against AFK cloakys
+ Permanent costs for defender, passive defender get no improvement
+ even bigger difference between co cloaky (warp claokes) and normal cloak (can´t warp when cloaked)

This would hit only AFK cloakys, gives the Recon a huge advantage of beeing an real invisible ship., to work with cyno or give the location of the target without beeing seen.
Flying attacks in co style works everywhere, you need active playing on both sides (gatewatch, scan-patrols)

As long as the timers are reasonable and don't **** up bombing runs, staging and such, this looks good to me.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#9466 - 2017-05-04 09:12:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Linus Gorp wrote:
Rolling on laughing wrote:
Why not these :

- An infrastructure which puts particles in the sun which marks cloakys

functions :
- Infrastructure placed -> cloaky needs to do jump in a special interval (in the system) to get rid of these particles
, could work with the ADM (better ADM = higher frequency of jumps needed), infrastructure needs fuel
- T2 CovertOps frigs doesn´t appear in local (like in a WH)
- The cloaky ships can be probed down if marked, they don´t need to be decloaked on it´s own (active part for defender)

Ideas behind this:

- Active playing > passive playing
+ Scanning down claokys may be possible, when AFK
+ ADM rising security against AFK cloakys
+ Permanent costs for defender, passive defender get no improvement
+ even bigger difference between co cloaky (warp claokes) and normal cloak (can´t warp when cloaked)

This would hit only AFK cloakys, gives the Recon a huge advantage of beeing an real invisible ship., to work with cyno or give the location of the target without beeing seen.
Flying attacks in co style works everywhere, you need active playing on both sides (gatewatch, scan-patrols)

As long as the timers are reasonable and don't **** up bombing runs, staging and such, this looks good to me.


I could go for this too, though I would limit it only to the recon ships.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#9467 - 2017-05-04 16:44:31 UTC
Xcom wrote:
It takes a very special snowflake to exploit the cloaking mechanic to the point of logging in for months just to stick it to the other guy at the end of the barrel. Why would such a disgusting nolife behavior even be defended. I'm surprised how some people jump to defend quite literally what I would explain as, digital harassment supported by loophole mechanics.

Get a life
and to whoever defends this sick exploit, turn off your pc and enjoy your life, you need it.


TL;DR: WAAAAAAAAAH MOMMMY MOMMY THAT BAD PERSON HURT ME WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!1!!!!!!11!!!

This is EVE, you sad piece of ****. There is no such thing as "disgusting no-life behavior" in EVE. Dirty tricks, dishonorable tactics, etc, are encouraged both by the game mechanics and the developers. If someone is going AFK in your system for months at a time and shutting down your activities then the problem is not the cloaked ship, it's that you're too pathetic to fight back, even against a ship that is literally AFK and harmless.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#9468 - 2017-05-04 16:47:03 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
but the issue is that it is not optimal for ISK generation.


And here we see the heart of the problem: your posts are nothing more than the pathetic bleating of a carebear who can't stand the fact that they can't farm nullsec PvE content at maximum ISK/hour efficiency with zero risks. If you want that kind of risk-free maximum-efficiency farming then go back to highsec.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#9469 - 2017-05-04 23:47:18 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
As for local, if you lot are so poor that you need to remove local or have a delayed local than what can I say, plenty of people get kills without changing local, you are not hunters, you are easy kill players who would be better suited to FPS games.


Jesus kid, if you can't have standing fleets in sov null to counter an attack, you need to go back to single player games. Stop whining already. If you have standing fleets and corp mates that pay attention, AFK cloakers are literally never a problem.

Please stop being such a carebear. Everyone and their brother knows you're trying to make PvE easier.

I know I'm 'blocked', even though you respond to me. Let's see if you respond or not. 1/10, try to troll harder.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#9470 - 2017-05-05 00:20:45 UTC
Rolling on laughing wrote:
Why not these :

- An infrastructure which puts particles in the sun which marks cloakys

functions :
- Infrastructure placed -> cloaky needs to do jump in a special interval (in the system) to get rid of these particles
, could work with the ADM (better ADM = higher frequency of jumps needed), infrastructure needs fuel
- T2 CovertOps frigs doesn´t appear in local (like in a WH)
- The cloaky ships can be probed down if marked, they don´t need to be decloaked on it´s own (active part for defender)

Ideas behind this:

- Active playing > passive playing
+ Scanning down claokys may be possible, when AFK
+ ADM rising security against AFK cloakys
+ Permanent costs for defender, passive defender get no improvement
+ even bigger difference between co cloaky (warp claokes) and normal cloak (can´t warp when cloaked)

This would hit only AFK cloakys, gives the Recon a huge advantage of beeing an real invisible ship., to work with cyno or give the location of the target without beeing seen.
Flying attacks in co style works everywhere, you need active playing on both sides (gatewatch, scan-patrols)




What do the hunters get to compensate for losing their only counter to local?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9471 - 2017-05-05 04:13:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Rolling on laughing wrote:
Why not these :

- An infrastructure which puts particles in the sun which marks cloakys

functions :
- Infrastructure placed -> cloaky needs to do jump in a special interval (in the system) to get rid of these particles
, could work with the ADM (better ADM = higher frequency of jumps needed), infrastructure needs fuel
- T2 CovertOps frigs doesn´t appear in local (like in a WH)
- The cloaky ships can be probed down if marked, they don´t need to be decloaked on it´s own (active part for defender)

Ideas behind this:

- Active playing > passive playing
+ Scanning down claokys may be possible, when AFK
+ ADM rising security against AFK cloakys
+ Permanent costs for defender, passive defender get no improvement
+ even bigger difference between co cloaky (warp claokes) and normal cloak (can´t warp when cloaked)

This would hit only AFK cloakys, gives the Recon a huge advantage of beeing an real invisible ship., to work with cyno or give the location of the target without beeing seen.
Flying attacks in co style works everywhere, you need active playing on both sides (gatewatch, scan-patrols)




What do the hunters get to compensate for losing their only counter to local?


Apparently this,

Quote:
T2 CovertOps frigs doesn´t appear in local (like in a WH)


So bombers and covert ops ships no longer show up in local.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#9472 - 2017-05-05 04:39:35 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Rolling on laughing wrote:
Why not these :

- An infrastructure which puts particles in the sun which marks cloakys

functions :
- Infrastructure placed -> cloaky needs to do jump in a special interval (in the system) to get rid of these particles
, could work with the ADM (better ADM = higher frequency of jumps needed), infrastructure needs fuel
- T2 CovertOps frigs doesn´t appear in local (like in a WH)
- The cloaky ships can be probed down if marked, they don´t need to be decloaked on it´s own (active part for defender)

Ideas behind this:

- Active playing > passive playing
+ Scanning down claokys may be possible, when AFK
+ ADM rising security against AFK cloakys
+ Permanent costs for defender, passive defender get no improvement
+ even bigger difference between co cloaky (warp claokes) and normal cloak (can´t warp when cloaked)

This would hit only AFK cloakys, gives the Recon a huge advantage of beeing an real invisible ship., to work with cyno or give the location of the target without beeing seen.
Flying attacks in co style works everywhere, you need active playing on both sides (gatewatch, scan-patrols)




What do the hunters get to compensate for losing their only counter to local?


Apparently this,

Quote:
T2 CovertOps frigs doesn´t appear in local (like in a WH)


So bombers and covert ops ships no longer show up in local.


Ah didn't spot that.
Rolling on laughing
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9473 - 2017-05-05 08:32:37 UTC
dito,

maybe bombers should stay visible, and the scan/paperplane recons stay out of local.

For finetuning you could think about, what makes it appears in local
(Writing there ? Writing anywhere ? using another module beside the cloak ? , ...)

I don´t know, but bombers could be too powerful with this.


Proud member of NOTHING
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#9474 - 2017-05-05 08:46:36 UTC
Rolling on laughing wrote:
dito,

maybe bombers should stay visible, and the scan/paperplane recons stay out of local.

For finetuning you could think about, what makes it appears in local
(Writing there ? Writing anywhere ? using another module beside the cloak ? , ...)

I don´t know, but bombers could be too powerful with this.




I think the bombers would be too powerful with this, but the Force Recon ships having this ability would be logical if one goes down the same line of thought as combat recons having an immunity to D-scan. The important aspect is that force recons do not have immunity to bubbles. What you could do is have a module that enables the force recon ship to have this ability, so brick tanked nullified covert T3C's would no longer be the thing which would be a good thing. This would create different play choices.

I would suggest that a very specialised and vulnerable OA that could enhance local to pick them up for the counter play aspect.

But the wave or particle affect would be a must because it would just give silly easy kills to people who play other games, camp in one and then see someone active when they glance over who is actually playing the game and they go blap him with 20 BLOP's and then go back to WOT's, that would be what we have now for many of them.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Herosez
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9475 - 2017-05-05 10:19:44 UTC
Introduce capital probe scanners. They should be powerful enough to find the cloakers. Let the hunt begin, either the cloaker gets found, or the cap gets trapped.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9476 - 2017-05-05 17:44:39 UTC
And people wonder why I follow this thread....because it is hilarious.

On one side you got a group saying, "Look the root of the issue is local. That is why AFK cloaking works."

Then you have the other side replying with, "No, local is not the problem, stop talking about local. Local is fine."

Now we get a proposal that some on the "No, local is not the problem" side likes. But look at what it does. It effectively removes local if the hunter is in a certain ship.

Thanks for finally agreeing that yes, indeed, local is the root issue.

Hilarious.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#9477 - 2017-05-06 08:20:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Teckos Pech wrote:
And people wonder why I follow this thread....because it is hilarious.

On one side you got a group saying, "Look the root of the issue is local. That is why AFK cloaking works."

Then you have the other side replying with, "No, local is not the problem, stop talking about local. Local is fine."

Now we get a proposal that some on the "No, local is not the problem" side likes. But look at what it does. It effectively removes local if the hunter is in a certain ship.

Thanks for finally agreeing that yes, indeed, local is the root issue.

Hilarious.


You follow this thread because you like to troll people who are fed up with the AFK part of it, it is the only thing you are good at, you are a rubbish ganker and camper and you hardly rat, basically you get your kicks out of trolling people who want to play the game and want to express their issue with AFK play even if many don't realise that. In any case CCP have a fix incoming so you won't be able to continue this which is why you went attention seeking in the GD forum.

Local is not the issue and never was, it is the AFK play, but if you want to keep equating AFK play to local that shows you and the others like you are loony toons.

Do you even understand compromise, at least people like me try to accommodate others viewpoints even if I disagree with them, game balance is of course often about compromise but you are so up yourself you can't get that. Incidentally I do go hunting at times as one of the grunts on BLOP's fleets, but I do try to avoid Provi hunts as I feel they are always picked on.

Quite frankly you are the ridiculous one, and while I am replying to you, you should go and say in that thread you opened on GD what you think is causing the deflation rather than failing to look smart with your initial post, you did not, you just looked up yourself which is what you look like in this thread.

PS I just noticed that you said you don't know, which is a fair enough answer, but you did mention the ecosystem as part of the equation which means you have some thoughts on the matter. Well at least you were reasonable there, so I will give you a pass on that one.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#9478 - 2017-05-06 15:36:28 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Local is not the issue and never was, it is the AFK play, but if you want to keep equating AFK play to local that shows you and the others like you are loony toons.


Local absolutely is the issue, you're just too stupid to understand it. Without local there's no reason to stay logged in if you're going to go AFK, and the only cloaked ships would be ones with active players.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#9479 - 2017-05-07 11:58:26 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Local is not the issue and never was, it is the AFK play, but if you want to keep equating AFK play to local that shows you and the others like you are loony toons.


AFK cloaking only exists because we have to use that to counter local.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9480 - 2017-05-07 20:40:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
And people wonder why I follow this thread....because it is hilarious.

On one side you got a group saying, "Look the root of the issue is local. That is why AFK cloaking works."

Then you have the other side replying with, "No, local is not the problem, stop talking about local. Local is fine."

Now we get a proposal that some on the "No, local is not the problem" side likes. But look at what it does. It effectively removes local if the hunter is in a certain ship.

Thanks for finally agreeing that yes, indeed, local is the root issue.

Hilarious.


You follow this thread because you like to troll people who are fed up with the AFK part of it, it is the only thing you are good at, you are a rubbish ganker and camper and you hardly rat, basically you get your kicks out of trolling people who want to play the game and want to express their issue with AFK play even if many don't realise that. In any case CCP have a fix incoming so you won't be able to continue this which is why you went attention seeking in the GD forum.

Local is not the issue and never was, it is the AFK play, but if you want to keep equating AFK play to local that shows you and the others like you are loony toons.

Do you even understand compromise, at least people like me try to accommodate others viewpoints even if I disagree with them, game balance is of course often about compromise but you are so up yourself you can't get that. Incidentally I do go hunting at times as one of the grunts on BLOP's fleets, but I do try to avoid Provi hunts as I feel they are always picked on.

Quite frankly you are the ridiculous one, and while I am replying to you, you should go and say in that thread you opened on GD what you think is causing the deflation rather than failing to look smart with your initial post, you did not, you just looked up yourself which is what you look like in this thread.

PS I just noticed that you said you don't know, which is a fair enough answer, but you did mention the ecosystem as part of the equation which means you have some thoughts on the matter. Well at least you were reasonable there, so I will give you a pass on that one.


Yes, I know local is supposedly not the issue which is why you liked a proposal which...removes certain ships from local....while letting said ships be scanned down. Quite clearly local is indeed the root of the issue. Cloaks and AFK cloaking are a symptom of a bad intel mechanic...one that was really never intended.

Seriously, if a ship like a force recon does not show up in local, but can be probed down while cloaked, that effectively removes local as an intel tool for players who are ratting relative to that ship class.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online