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About those, who call the real war "Pendulum"
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Arrendis
TK Corp
#81 - 2017-05-05 13:15:00 UTC
Let's just draw attention to exactly the problem, shall we?

Luna Hanaya wrote:
It is an insult issued by people who don't do anything except speaking to annoy those people, who do act and do something and try to change something.


What, exactly, do you think you're changing? What do you think you can change? The Empire will never allow you to declare victory, never stop allowing the TLF to retake systems as long as their immortal sports team can score points against your immortal sports team. All it would take would be for CONCORD to assign a higher enforcement priority to capsuleer-on-capsuleer conflict in those systems, and actually respond, and that's that. The war's over. The bloodshed ends. No more Amarr systems threatened by the TLF.

They don't do that. They won't do that. Because they, and all four empires—yours included—don't want them to. They don't want anyone to win. They don't want you changing anything. So they're not letting you change anything. Who exactly is it that's insulting you, Hanaya? The people pointing out that you're being lied to and used? Or the people using you?
Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#82 - 2017-05-05 13:17:37 UTC
The war is real, even if it is also designed to not allow true victory.

So long as one side does not dominate the war outright, the effect of the war is to drain the resources of all four nations equally. This is a conscious purpose that is designed to prevent the sort of vicious surprise attacks that started the war. It also penalizes the Caldari and the Matari more than the Amarr and Gallente, which makes sense as it was the Amarr and Gallente who were attacked during the initial actions of the war.

But those who say the war does not matter are wrong. If the smaller powers were able to maintain an offensive advantage for a long enough period of time, that might allow them to start swinging the balance of power in their favor. It is almost certainly this hope, as well as the fear of the consequences of a total war, that caused the Matari and Caldari to sign on to the war agreement.

As such, it is imperative for the security of the Empire that we maintain either a general draw in the war or a consistent upper hand.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#83 - 2017-05-05 14:14:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashlar Vellum
Elmund Egivand wrote:
However, 'Pendulum' is a very apt description of the conflict in the systems put aside for the sake of said conflict by the Emergency Militia Act. Dominance swings back and forth, over and over, and over, throughout the years of its existence. Exactly like a swinging pendulum. Hence the coining of the term.

It is not about maturity, it is about the observable effects and consequences and the absence of anything resembling permanence and the complete lack of an attempt by the sovereign nations, the supposed biggest stakeholders of this conflict, to ensure permanency in this conflict. Unless you have a better name for a conflict whose most defining feature is how dominance swings back and forth over and over again, we are going to keep calling it 'The Pendulum War'.

Why do you think lack of permanence is the sovereign nations fault and not 'cause of Emergency Militia War Powers Act that was ratified by CONCORD. Exact timing escapes me, but wasn't E.M.W.P.A agreed upon in less than 24 hours after the events of YC110-06-10.

Arrendis wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Unless you have a better name for a conflict whose most defining feature is how dominance swings back and forth over and over again, we are going to keep calling it 'The Pendulum War'.


A conflict that was expressly designed by all four empires to have dominance swing back and forth, never-ending.


Was it really, by the big four and not by the CONCORD Assembly?
Arrendis
TK Corp
#84 - 2017-05-05 15:29:57 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Was it really, by the big four and not by the CONCORD Assembly?


Let's review.

CONCORD's ruling body has to approve anything the CONCORD Assembly recommends, before it can be enacted as binding upon the four empires.
That council is made up of representatives from the four empires, and the Jove—now the SoCT.
Those representatives don't approve of something without the consent of the government they represent.

The Jove had nothing to do with this.

So your question becomes:

"Was it really, by the big four and not by the [express approval of the big four]?'

Sooooo... the answer becomes 'did you think this question through, because both options are the same'.
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#85 - 2017-05-05 15:47:50 UTC
Luna Hanaya wrote:
I have heard this word "Pendulum" only from mouths of those, who don't do anything, and only speak.


Been there, done that, attained the rank of Venge Captain. At which point I realized it was going nowhere. Now I'm no longer one of the cool kids, but so be it.

Ps. "Pendulum."
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#86 - 2017-05-05 17:16:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashlar Vellum
Arrendis wrote:

Ashlar Vellum wrote:

Arrendis wrote:

Elmund Egivand wrote:
Unless you have a better name for a conflict whose most defining feature is how dominance swings back and forth over and over again, we are going to keep calling it 'The Pendulum War'.


A conflict that was expressly designed by all four empires to have dominance swing back and forth, never-ending.

Was it really, by the big four and not by the CONCORD Assembly?

Let's review.

CONCORD's ruling body has to approve anything the CONCORD Assembly recommends, before it can be enacted as binding upon the four empires.
That council is made up of representatives from the four empires, and the Jove—now the SoCT.
Those representatives don't approve of something without the consent of the government they represent.

The Jove had nothing to do with this.

So your question becomes:

"Was it really, by the big four and not by the [express approval of the big four]?'

Sooooo... the answer becomes 'did you think this question through, because both options are the same'.

You said expressly designed by all four empires, when in fact it was a child of Inner Circle members which are employees of CONCORD (they aren't even nominated by the big 4 now). Each nation can send a delegate to the CONCORD Assembly that will present their case, decision is still made by the IC five heads.

Removing your quote to defend your own argument is bad, ok.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#87 - 2017-05-05 17:34:55 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:

You said expressly designed by all four empires, when in fact it was a child of Inner Circle members which are employees of CONCORD (they aren't even nominated by the big 4 now). Each nation can send a delegate to the CONCORD Assembly that will present their case, decision is still made by the IC five heads.

Removing your quote to defend your own argument is bad, ok.


Please. I know you're Amarr, but even you can't be naive.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#88 - 2017-05-05 17:45:23 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:

You said expressly designed by all four empires, when in fact it was a child of Inner Circle members which are employees of CONCORD (they aren't even nominated by the big 4 now). Each nation can send a delegate to the CONCORD Assembly that will present their case, decision is still made by the IC five heads.

Removing your quote to defend your own argument is bad, ok.


Please. I know you're Amarr, but even you can't be naive.

Really that's your argument, ok.

I'm getting a feeling you have no idea how the CONCORD Assembly functions or if you are backpedaling at least do it with grace.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#89 - 2017-05-05 17:49:38 UTC
To my knowledge, the Inner Circle has nine members; one from each Empire, and four from the DED. Previously, the fifth 'empire' seat was held by the Jove, but that has been taken now by the Society of Conscious Thought. Much of CONCORD's apparent weakness or inactivity in recent years had been attributed to the deadlocks that would occur in the absence of the Jove vote as a tiebreaker.

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Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#90 - 2017-05-05 18:01:24 UTC
To my knowledge it's ten. Five heads from the IC and five delegates from the core empires.
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2017-05-06 03:12:30 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
I'm sure Noir felt much the same way about the State.


Doubtful, if you knew much about the man's history.

That last act of 'his', is completely inconsistent with nearly a century of diplomatic work. It's highly suspicious.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost
Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#92 - 2017-05-06 12:59:11 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Let's just draw attention to exactly the problem, shall we?

Luna Hanaya wrote:
It is an insult issued by people who don't do anything except speaking to annoy those people, who do act and do something and try to change something.


What, exactly, do you think you're changing? What do you think you can change?

Considering I am not among those, who fight in this war?
I am enlightening people!!


Arrendis wrote:
The Empire will never allow you to declare victory, never stop allowing the TLF to retake systems as long as their immortal sports team can score points against your immortal sports team. All it would take would be for CONCORD to assign a higher enforcement priority to capsuleer-on-capsuleer conflict in those systems, and actually respond, and that's that. The war's over. The bloodshed ends. No more Amarr systems threatened by the TLF.

They don't do that. They won't do that. Because they, and all four empires—yours included—don't want them to. They don't want anyone to win. They don't want you changing anything. So they're not letting you change anything.

If I'd fight the war, I would be guarding systems from being captured by TLF, so they can't steal our slaves anymore! Trust me, if you'd leave on one of these planets, the last thing you would want is access of Republic vessels to your skies. When they have it, they can descend on your head at any hour, they will burn, pillage, murder and of course kidnap!

Arrendis wrote:
Who exactly is it that's insulting you, Hanaya? The people pointing out that you're being lied to and used? Or the people using you?

Mr. Nauplius!
He said I was an exotic dancer!
I never was!!!

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