EVE General Discussion

Of course this ignores all of the facts.

When I started playing in 2007 it was as others described it, you were handed a spaceship and then, nothing. You had to figure things out for yourself, and TALK TO PEOPLE, and actively search the internet for videos of people doing the things you wanted to do. And the game let you make mistakes, tragic ones that cost you everything you had and pushed you all the way back to zero. Learning things the hard way is a valuable tool.

While most people who tried EVE quit very soon after starting, the game appealed to enough people that even in a time when other MMOs were declining, EVE grew. You could see it in the PCU charts at EVE Offline.

But CCP is a business, and like every business it pained them to see people leave. So they tried to find ways to keep them. They made bad assumptions about people, and failed to realize that the very nature of EVE itself ( a game about freedom that historically doesn't give much direction to players and doesn't 'fluff the ego' in any way) just doesn't mesh with what most people want (which is basically to participate in an interactive movie where they are the star of the show).

So here came all the well intentioned but ultimately self defeating actions CCP took. Safeties, changes to crime watch, pop ups that told you "hey, don't do that" and all the rest. It all culminated in the tragic "easy to learn, hard to master" nonsense at the end of 2012.

Not only did CCP NOT convince the masses who tried the game and quit to stay(that million people you mention), they made the game less fun for the people who actually like EVE..

Some of us told CCP that. That they needed to make a choice, that you can't have it both ways. Either you have a great niche sandbox game that appeals to a certain smallish but loyal segment of the gaming community, or you reach for mainstream greatness trying to replicate the successes of WoW and end up like every other game that tried to do that (dead).



The ironic thing is that in some ways, CCP has been doing what YOU asked them to , Indahmawar Fazmarai. Lots of moves they made de-emphasized non-consensual PVP, they've added loads and loads of new PVE since 2011, and have basically tried to cater to the PVE loving MMO masses.

It didn't work. EVE is a game for 2 types of folks: PVP'rs or PVE players that aren't scared away by PVP. It's never going to be a game for the "I just want to PVE, leave me alone" crowd, and trying to make it that way (which is what CCP basically did with all that safety crap, 99% of it only applied to high sec) was the dumbest thing CCP ever did.

I would reclassify that second group (or add a third group). PVE players who avoid PvP but like the excitement that potential PvP adds to PvE play.

That's been me at a lot of times. My PvP is me trying to escape to safety and them trying to blow me up. If I escape I win. I actually ENJOY that element. I like taking wormholes into enemy Null space and trying to steal all of their relic sites while they try to ambush me to send me home.

I do like seeing more interesting PvE stuff added. I think the moon mining changes will be interesting. I wish we had a LOT more in the way of epic mission arcs (instead of going from the laughably easy career missions to fairly easy SOE missions to very hard faction missions... how about some cruiser and BC level stuff in between?)

I also don't want PvP nerfed. The potential of being jumped, even in high-sec, is what makes the game engaging for me. I do want the ability to make it easier for those doing the ganking to get ganged up on in return... because hey... content, right? But that's not saying I want my game to be safer... I just want theirs to be less safe.

You are, and it's even worse if you don't realize that's what you are asking for.

But more than safety, you are one the the main ones who talked about how "CCP better do something because "X" game is coming." If you are wanting EVE to be like other games, the thing that defines those games relative to EVE is safety (and hand holding).



And that is exactly where it should NOT come from. Games giving people help like that sounds like common sense but is actually a bad thing in a game that requires creativity and curiosity.

I will give some example: EVE UI was always scolded for its ruggedness when I joined.

They did not have even loot button until 2011 or something like that.

So if anybody expects CCP to act quickly with EVE, even with competition breathing down their neck, he will be dissapointed again and again. And there were times people resigned because they just could not be bothered to wait any longer for stuff happening. While CCP tried to discover america all over again with console gaming or VR gaming or vampire games. CCP brings it on itself.

I don't think that's ever going to happen and not only because interaction with other players is a positive experience in EVE, but also because CCP have acknowledged that learning EVE is a difficult thing and they'll never be able to do it all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbHqFgn4SOw

CCP already provide now a lot of in game videos and improved NPE and stuff and yet, often the quickest way to learn something is to ask someone else. I hope that never disappears personally and it there's a balance between the game helping you understand the basic mechanics and other players helping.

I'd almost personally hope for no in game help at all and to rely on other players as much as possible, but that's not really an ideal either. The current mix is not bad, at least in my view.

[quote=Scipio ArteliusI interaction with other players is a positive experience in EVE.[/quote]


Quote the thing^

Only if you like cigarettes, cancer and toxicity. If you had capitalised Players, then YES.

Eve is ugly. It's like a darkweb site for torturepron. BUT that's what makes it shine like a Brown Dwarf in the dimmest regions of cyberspace.

I had no trouble at all finding how to start an Alliance. Guess you just need to catch up The fact TWO of you with 17 YEARS experience with EvE still don't know how to use Google is astonishing.

People do that all the time, they have a problem with something and instead of coming to the conclusion that they are not so good at something and need to get better/change their approach, they decide that something is broken or that someone else screwed up. It's a common trait I notice with people who frequently complain about things they don't like.

I had zero problems forming an alliance between my old alt corp and my buddies alt corp, because I asked someone who had formed an alliance rather than either taking a shot in the dark or expecting CCP to provide some information. This is how it really should be in EVE, asking question leads to other conversations leads to friendships which leads to player retention.

CCP has been making things easier to understand, more "clear cut". One DEV defended the safety pop ups by saying "we want to make sure everyone is doing things on purpose instead of by accident". On it's surface it appears reasonable, until you realize that making mistakes (like accidentally jumping into low sec) was one of those things that helped bind people to the game, because dying to a low sec gate camp makes people angry and anger is a great motivator for improvement (in mentally healthy people at least)

Same as when they "improved" the skill que. They did what we asked, and people stopped having to log in so much to change skills and didn't have to "alarm clock" anymore. Everyone agrees this was in improvement. And player activity levels decreased, because CCP "Wal-Marted" itself with that move.

Almost everyone I know says EVE is a better game today than in the past. It's also a game that struggles even more to retain people. That raw, rough, DIY EVE Online pre-2012 was [better at getting players to keep playing[/b]. Some of us asked CCP to not screw with that winning formula (while being accused of "being afraid of change" by reckless EVE forumites). CCP pushed ahead with "progress" and ended up with a much shiner, much more advanced, much more user freindly game.....

...That most people STILL don't want to play, even people who in the past might have wanted to try something like EVE.

Apparently no one has ever been able to figure out how to start an Alliance in EVE. The one I am a part of must have been started by CCP and then they let our corporations join.


Telling people you don't know how to use Google would have been easier.

http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=Alliance_creation_name_tips_and_process#Alliance_Creation_Mechanics




This may have changed, I used it 5 years ago. But it's not hard to find.

The Joy of exploring comes from not having a map. What would have happened if Magellan of Leif Erikson had said "dude, I can't go there, I ain't got a map"! Figuring things out for yourself brings with it a feeling of accomplishment and those kinds of feelings bind people to the game.

CCP has largely been killing things that generate those feelings. In most cases you don't even have to use the internet anymore, some pop up will explain everything you need to know. The thrice damned Mission Guidance system is the perfect example.

"Easy and well documented" is just bad for a game like EVE man. Again notice that before all these pop ups and guidance systems and improved NPE experience etc, EVE was GROWING and damn enar as soon as they hit their stride with all that stuff and the rest of the dumbing down ("Easy to learn, hard to master" in 2012), the PCU stats started to decline and CCP clammed up about subscription numbers.