EVE General Discussion

One of the easy ways would be to modify the gates leading into Incursion sites. I guess Vanguard sites will become much harder if there only are some BCs and Logistics instead of faction BSs for example... And contesting would be like contesting and not like "who has the bigger wallet"

Sorry I am doing a drive by on this thread.

OP is literally the weakest link here. This doesn't have anything to do with the CSM or CCP. Nor does it have to do with 0.0 Vs bears.

This is focused on removal of an out of whack mechanic and removing a risk free Isk Faucet.

At first I thought no one could be dumber than Endevor Starfleet. Thanks for proving me wrong.

You guys with your conspiracy theories are really taxing my ability to read, and respond to, genuine questions/concerns about what we are doing. For some, this is about the tears. For others revenge is the motive. At the core-we really are genuinely trying to force CCP to balance Incursions with the rest of Eve. I suspect a lot of us are doing this because it is something to do, and that it overlaps other reasons listed above.

CCP has a long history of bringing something into a game and tweaking it to bring it to close levels with other things of a similar nature. Remember when the Drone Regions were new? I erected a POS with refining array. Was making stupid amounts of ISK refining the drone compounds. When I say stupid amounts of ISK I mean crazy stupid amounts of ISK. Few months later they reduced the mineral payouts from killing Drone spawns.

I was a little sad, but I understood that what I was making unfair amounts of money doing something easy, and when they nerfed the deal, I made a more balanced income vs. the risk of other occupations. They did good balancing act on that, even though it hurt me personally.

My primary personal motivations and goals for shutting down incursions have been met, mostly. What I really wanted to do was make a big enough impression that the organizers of leading incursion teams would have a conference with me. They did, and it was productive-at least to me. I got their truthful answers and very valuable input about incursions, that I used to make my recommendations to CCP about a nerf. Most of the rest of it was for trolling and for fun.

Yes I said it. Fun. Eve is a video game. Video games are a type of game. Games are meant to be fun. Therefore, Eve is meant to be fun. Please dont crucify me because I play games to have fun

i think its a lot of bs.
Incursions are not risk free. If they were, people would be abl to suicide or jam by other people as it has been happening recently.
Also eve has become a power base for large alliances and coalitions. They usually have ship reinbursment programs inclusing super capital reinbursment programs.
You cannot fight a mayor alliance or coalition without isk. You need the isk to do so. Incursions aree a good way to gather isk to finance those wars vs those power groups. Otherwise there is no way you can. You cannot have high end moons and you cannot have isk, so how are you suppose to overpower the power groups? You need isk and incursion was a good way to go about it.
The sactum and heavens ere a good way to maintain a steady stream of isk to keep in war. A lot of people said that if this was to be nerfed 0.0 as gonna be empty. People laughed at it in disbelieve but it happened. Now that incursions are gonna be nerfed to the ground, do you seriously think people are gonna go back to 0.0? In your dreams. War need isk and you cannot face a super power or a medium power alliance without it, cos they will always bring friends or hire mercs.
I will tell you no hats gonna happen. People are gonna go back into wh or keep runing incursions. This is not gonna change 0.0. ITs not gonna change cos you simply cannot fight those super powers. The super poers have far too much isk passing through their wallets every days to be harmed.

The hole 0.0 is too overpowered and needs some serious nerfing or rethinked. Its far too much isk flowing to their wallets. Only then you can have smaller alliances actually have a chance vs these super powers and their allies. If CCP is serious about stiring the pot and making people to do more pvp, then nerfing 0.0 is the way, otherise who can actually afford to go vs merc, ship replacement programs, coalitions and their allies?

I'll give you a non-trolling answer:

The problem isn't the amount of isk. The problem is that the actual act of taking away a system is a massive cockstab which is way, way too easy to deflect. The SOV system needs to be modified to be much, much more dynamic than it currently is, with a lot more small targets. This would have the knock-on benefits of enabling two coalitions to run constant harassment against the other to grind down SOV, instead of these fuckoff huge fleets we currently see all the time with 1000+ in local.

While 1000+ in local is fun, designing a SOV system which encourages smaller fleet engagements would most likely be more fun and enable smaller alliances to gain a foothold in otherwise unused nullsec space.

you're comparing incursions, a high-sec activity that pumps ISK into wallets with minimal risk, with moon mining, which requires coordinated logistics teams.

you don't simply tower a technetium moon and passively make 7b/month/moon, you have to keep the tower fueled, empty the silos regularly and ship the minerals to Jita. they also have to be defended in case they are attacked, and you risk billions of ISK in triage carriers and fleets doing this.

so while I'll agree that moons need rebalancing, it's blatantly obvious that you have no clue what you're talking about.

why solo? because you don't want to care about anyone except you.
why should anybody care about solo player then?

This is actually a very good answer by a goon. But there is one problem. ISK. Small entities cannot compete with large entities. Even if you by some miracle get a system or a bunch of system you still cannot afford to war on your enemy. Not when your enemy has ship replacemnt programs etc. They can always win by either share number, or super caps, or merc or isk. So many alliances have moved into 0.0 emire space to earn isk with the possibility of later obtaining space but instead 0.0 empire becomes the death of them cos they cant move and actually conquer space. The reasons mentioned above just keep showing its ogly face =(

Of course ISK wil rear its face at some point, that doesn't change the fact that what we're seeing, right now, is a ton of space not being used by anyone, but it's also not being attacked because everyone knows it'll take a LONG time to actually get anywhere, if just looking at the mass of EHP on structures. There's a reason Delve/Querious/etc was left in IT Alliance's hands for months after they essentially died.

If the act of actually losing SOV (and as a result, taking SOV) was easier, then today's large sprawling empires wouldn't be nearly as easy to defend, and as such they would end up contracting on their own.

ISK does make it easier to defend space because you have ship replacement programs etc, yes, but there comes a point where you end up having too much to defend. ISK can only carry you so far before you burn out.

You say its an isk faucet yet if you look at the market wouldn't you say everything has inflated to match? I mean Plex has gone up like crazy, those of you in low and null pulling pirate boats and prints to jita have seen a significant increase in demand and price.

Also the risk of running an incursion only decreases with skills and the trust of your fleet. Of course even in a good fleet your looking at a significant amount of risk: Logi's not paying attention, griefers / suicide gankers, and of course the dreaded disconnect. I am confidently saying that there have been many fleets I have been in where I've seen a 5b nightmare go down because our trusted logi was not as trusted as we thought. Or because somebody failed to mention they were at war and they were not repped and another few bill down the drain. Sadly even the odd time where someone has the genius idea to make their large sig radius a super large sig radius with no resists.

If it were a public fleet you'd run many more risks and it significantly raises these factors, plenty of people have lost ships and its no different from anything else if you are careless and/or your fleet fails to perform their duties.

However if say you were to propose the rewards for low sec incursions to be more enticing I think you'd actually have some support from incursioners. Maybe the low sec has a small slight chance to drop sansha mods :P

risk to hisec incursion runners:

1: Going to incursion and not fitting resists
2: not bringing logisticships before warping to incursion
3: undocking during wardec and not broadcasting for reps

chilling stuff, i have no idea how you guys are able to farm 23/7 in the face of such adversity