Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So, I was back to an old horse I like to beat, namely, trying to figure out a good fit for an Abaddon for PvE use.

Ofc, as we all know, the Abaddon just has too many cap issues to seriously use it as it's hull bonuses suggest... namely, a tanky, laser-death spewing, brawler.

Now, I make do on Amarr BC (and even some C) by fitting with a Lg Cap Battery... but extending this concept on up to a BS and fitting a capitol-class battery, obv., can't work, duh to the enormous PG requirements.

BUT... what about an XL Cap Batt? w/say, 1k PG baseline? for the most part, I'd think that would make fitting it for PvP abit harsh, yet still make it a noteworthy idea for PvE!

you ever tried running, say, L4 AE bonus room in an Abaddon? While it doesn't need to be cap stable, it does need quite abit more help for cap then is currently available w/out drastically screwing over it's mod slots for it.

Nope, but you're also talking about using one of the worst match-ups between player ship and missions to take said ship on and cap issues is only one of several reasons. Just because you can take an Abaddon on that mission (especially that room) doesn't mean it's a good idea. That's like saying that since battleships can use mining equipment to mine, they ought to be good at it.

The Abaddon is a fine brawler *for PvP*. Missions tax a different set of characteristics on a ship than PvP does and the Abaddon is a better PvP ship than it is a PvE boat. Every race has a battleship that isn't great for missions in general.

For the Caldari it's the Scorpion, and to a lesser extent the Rokh as well, for the Gallente it's the Megathron, for the Minmattar it's the Tempest, and for the Amarr it's the Abaddon.

Also don't fit a Reactive Armor Hardener for PvE outside of a very few missions with weirdly swingy resist profiles either in general or from room to room. Fit mission specific resists. A Reactive Armor Hardener is horrifically cap inefficient.

About 2x the cap bonus of a Large would still put it well above 1k PG, because cap per PG isn't linear, you're saving slots so you pay exponentially more in PG for that added cap. For example a Large T2 Cap Battery has 2.6 times the cap of a Medium T2 Cap Battery, but costs 5.333x more in PG. If you go by how much that larger cap battery costs you in total fitting space you're still looking at something that would be fairly punishing to fit on a BS the same way most Large Cap Batteries are pretty hard to squeeze onto a Cruiser.

Also you should really watch this bit of the Ship and Module Balance presentation where they talk about potential future plans. One of the things they're looking for feedback on is buffing cap and shield regen bonuses but also stacking penalizing them, so you can fit fewer modules for the same effect but probably can't get quite the same crazy effects you can now.

Yup, I watched it when you first suggested it earlier, but thank you for linking it for others perusing the thread!

and, tbh, I do like the idea, in general, about changing the cap regen mods for that... but cap regen mods are a different thing that cap batts =)

Personally, I like cap batts for laser boats... I've found that I can in general get better cap life in such ships by extending the max cap limit with such mods/rigs then I can by loading up on any amount of cap regen atm (other ships though tend to benefit more from a mix... generally for hybrid boats I like 2 max cap 1 cap regen, and for missile/proj boats I'm finding a 1/1 mix works best).

imo, that makes this an even better time to suggest it, then!

After all, they'll be closely monitoring the cap situation regardless as they make changes to keep things balanced, and this way, it's not just over one mod then!

It's still not worth it if you actually check the math on the module and the mission rats vs all your other available options.

For example Serpentis, which is pretty much the ideal for a Reactive Hardener, tanks almost (literally 7 EHP/s) as well with a Passive Therm, Passive Kinetic, and an active Therm as it does with the two passives and the Reactive, but it uses almost 1/3rd less cap. Plus it tanks better up front due to not taking time to adjust.



The Scorpion can passive tank, sure, but it literally doesn't have the DPS with that kidn of brick tank to actually complete some Level 4 missions, and the ones it can do are going to be abominably slow, to the point that any other better ship warping out and docking up would have a better time of it.

I think you're talking about the Typhoon here, not the Tempest, considering the Tempest only has 4 launchers and no bonuses to them. The Tempest is the flying fin that has lousy cap, no tank bonus, and pure damage bonuses which means it has trouble applying to a lot of mission ships.

The problem with both the Mega and the Rokh is that Hybrids are generally less than ideal for PvE in general, and both have absolutely terrible capacitor. At best they'll have marginally better cap life than an Abaddon, but you're not getting either cap stable without a deadspace tank mod. Plus they either fit rails and lack the tracking and damage of Pulse Lasers, or they fit Blasters and lack in range, so you actually get a pretty good weapon system for all that cap use as well.

Not every ship needs to be fantastic for missions, and it's certainly not supposed to be easy to get every ship or fit cap stable.



Generally in missions you'll still be better off with regen, since missions rarely have you running your tank and guns continuously you end up with more cap at the start of a room if you run full regen, or close to it, and if you need to mid-room you can let your guns cool for a minute and build some cap back up if you're starting to pass peak recharge. Assuming you can tank the room that is, if you can't tank the room and gain cap then you probably need to warp out.



Just no.

First off, you've provided zero reasoning for such changes.

On top of that we already have an equivalent to an "XL plate" in the form of 1600mm plates.

XL Shield Extenders would be hilariously OP on a lot of ships because of how passive shield tanking works.

Battleships *really* don't need oversized prop mods, we have enough of those already, and besides most Battleships wouldn't even be able to fit one considering how prop mods scale up in fitting cost.

Also, I still think an XL Cap Batt is a good idea... sure, arguments can be made that it isn't needed, but lets be honest, if we really wanted to, we could come up with 'reasons to not' for alot of things.

I just think that, timing wise, since CCP is deliberately focusing on cap, this is a great time to give some serious consideration to this.

hmm... well, this is why I was thinking of mebbe just having it be a Storyline only version, like in the case ofthe Micro... that would allow a little extra leeway in the stats on it I think.

The Storyline options are super limited and still don't get the kind of fitting bonuses you're talking about here. Also the Micro cap batteries were removed due to lack of use before more than one version of most modules existed. They were rebranded Storyline items retroactively as an indication of rarity. They're currently effectively legacy items only used on a very small number of niche fits.

A Storyline Only item like this would also likely be expensive enough that it wouldn't be worth putting on a T1 Battleship. The Storyline Large Cap Battery is already 130m, or 20-30m short of the cost of an Abaddon hull.