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Please redo the RETRIBUTION - it is largely useless

Author
Desmios Sanguis
Outfit 418
Blue Loot Not Included
#1 - 2017-05-02 20:40:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Desmios Sanguis
The retribution is a good assault frigate on paper, minus one thing, a medium slot. It only has 2; it traded a medium slot to its partner, the vengeance, to get a low slot.

The fact that a lazer assault frigate (24mil hull) has only 2 medium slots makes it useless in many situations; able to fill only a couple niches (speedtank dps, without doing much dps) with it does poorly for its cost and compared to counterparts.

Honestly, add a mid slot and nerf EHP while subtracting a low slot, or re-work it.

As it stands, it is just trash, and CCP can do much, much, better.

Please make this game better and fix this ship.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Duckzer Mining Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
#2 - 2017-05-02 20:53:39 UTC
10m3 drone bay 5m3 drone bandwidth

bonus to web drone % per level of propulsion jamming and frigate after L3.

40% max web bonus works for me instead of a mid slot.

Trade off is the drone is destructible and fragile, needs time to move and apply and is less than a full slot would be.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#3 - 2017-05-02 21:03:42 UTC
This should be in the Ships & Modules category.

Retribution is a popular PVE ship where the 5 low slots are far more useful. In PVP, the T3 destroyers have pretty much taken over -
you can buy a Confessor for a little over 30 million.
Desmios Sanguis
Outfit 418
Blue Loot Not Included
#4 - 2017-05-02 21:06:58 UTC
Do Little wrote:
This should be in the Ships & Modules category.

Retribution is a popular PVE ship where the 5 low slots are far more useful. In PVP, the T3 destroyers have pretty much taken over -
you can buy a Confessor for a little over 30 million.


sadly confessor is 47-48 in jita 4-4 :(

Ive flown PvE forever and never debated a retribution, what PvE would that ever be used with out of curiosity?
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#5 - 2017-05-02 21:58:45 UTC
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
The retribution is a good assault frigate on paper, minus one thing, a medium slot. It only has 2; it traded a medium slot to its partner, the vengeance, to get a low slot.

The fact that a lazer assault frigate (24mil hull) has only 2 medium slots makes it useless in many situations; able to fill only a couple niches (speedtank dps, without doing much dps) with it does poorly for its cost and compared to counterparts.

Honestly, add a mid slot and nerf EHP while subtracting a low slot, or re-work it.

As it stands, it is just trash, and CCP can do much, much, better.

Please make this game better and fix this ship.


I'll root for the Velator ... it is utter trash, CCP can do much better!
Aiwha
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#6 - 2017-05-03 00:26:44 UTC
All AF's except for that one gallente drone one are messed up. T3D's basically do their job better than AF's.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.

Trevor Dalech
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#7 - 2017-05-03 01:00:34 UTC
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
Do Little wrote:
This should be in the Ships & Modules category.

Retribution is a popular PVE ship where the 5 low slots are far more useful. In PVP, the T3 destroyers have pretty much taken over -
you can buy a Confessor for a little over 30 million.


sadly confessor is 47-48 in jita 4-4 :(

Ive flown PvE forever and never debated a retribution, what PvE would that ever be used with out of curiosity?



It's a bit niche, but the retribution is the most effective ship around for running Sansha and Blood 1/10 DED sites. The confessor will not fit in those. I'm sure it has other pvp purposes as well...
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#8 - 2017-05-03 07:43:36 UTC
Confessor prices start at 25 million, cheapest in highsec this morning seems to be 35 million in Hek. There was one on offer for 32 million when I checked yesterday. https://market.fuzzwork.co.uk/type/34317/

Jita is convenient but you rarely find a bargain.
Demolishar
United Aggression
#9 - 2017-05-03 09:03:19 UTC
Pretty sure it used to have one mid slot ...
Magnus Jax
#10 - 2017-05-03 09:32:48 UTC
AF rebalance has been due for quite a few years now, surely it can wait a few more...

That or just delete them since they purposely introduced the direct replacement for them, no one can be this stupid to create T3D and think it wouldn't **** all over frig/dessy/cruiser balance.

Sarcasm or painful truth, I'm yet undecided.
David Therman
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2017-05-03 10:10:15 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
All AF's except for that one gallente drone one are messed up. T3D's basically do their job better than AF's.


This, the only thing most AF's have going for them are the ability to get into more FW sites compared to T3D's. The other day I thought about buying a wolf as a cheap-ish ship to fight stuff like confessors... only to discover that (at the time) the svipul was only about 5m more. Bang for buck, it's a no brainer in most cases.
Don Pera Saissore
#12 - 2017-05-03 10:58:02 UTC
Its lazors, most of the time you dont even need webs
Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#13 - 2017-05-03 11:10:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Sitting Bull Lakota
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
The (pick an Amarr ship) is a good (pick a class) on paper, minus one thing, a medium slot.
Honestly, add a mid slot and nerf EHP while subtracting a low slot, or re-work it.

Please make this game better and fix this (race).
Welcome to Amarr.

I miss the one midslot coercer.
Magnus Jax
#14 - 2017-05-03 12:32:04 UTC
Don Pera Saissore wrote:
Its lazors, most of the time you dont even need webs


Pulse lasers have the worst tracking of all short range weapons.
Jimmy Thrace
Amarrian Enterprise Institute
#15 - 2017-05-03 14:47:39 UTC
I think the idea is that since pulse lasers can project their damage further than standard web ranges (and retain decent damage with Scorch), you're not meant to fit one, and therefore only need a MWD and a long point. It's a design feature that comes up a lot on small Amarrian ships - most notably the Slicer, which shares the Retribution's optimal range bonus. Slicers are pretty good, right? The Punisher and the Crusader have the same drawback without the optimal range modifiers to help offset it.

If you want an alternative, then you can consider the Cruor. Not only does the Cruor have three mid slots, it also receives a bonus to web range, so you could potentially fit it to web at bonused scorch ranges. The downside is that it's more expensive, and needs to be within conventional web range if you want to take advantage of its capacitor warfare bonuses.
Magnus Jax
#16 - 2017-05-03 15:31:19 UTC
Jimmy Thrace wrote:
I think the idea is that since pulse lasers can project their damage further than standard web ranges (and retain decent damage with Scorch), you're not meant to fit one, and therefore only need a MWD and a long point. It's a design feature that comes up a lot on small Amarrian ships - most notably the Slicer, which shares the Retribution's optimal range bonus. Slicers are pretty good, right? The Punisher and the Crusader have the same drawback without the optimal range modifiers to help offset it.

If you want an alternative, then you can consider the Cruor. Not only does the Cruor have three mid slots, it also receives a bonus to web range, so you could potentially fit it to web at bonused scorch ranges. The downside is that it's more expensive, and needs to be within conventional web range if you want to take advantage of its capacitor warfare bonuses.


According to your... logic the Slicer is the quintessential Amarrian design as it's fast and lower armored. I'm sure you can name a few other Amarrian ships that are fast and low armored compared to other factions.
Jimmy Thrace
Amarrian Enterprise Institute
#17 - 2017-05-03 21:53:10 UTC
The punisher is the same way, Magnus, and that's slower and bonused for armor. It's common to the Amarrian combat frigate, navy frigate, laser assault frigate and combat interceptor (and the more tackle-based inty doesn't even use lasers), so it's definitely a "thing" when dealing with small Amarrian laser ships. The Slicer and Crusader use their atypical speed while the Punisher would ideally have friends with him to accomplish a similar thing, but they're all 2-mid slot ships that can use close guns that can project decent damage beyond web range.
Magnus Jax
#18 - 2017-05-03 21:58:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Magnus Jax
Jimmy Thrace wrote:
you're not meant to fit one, and therefore only need a MWD and a long point. It's a design feature that comes up a lot on small Amarrian ships - most notably the Slicer


Jimmy Thrace wrote:
The Slicer and Crusader use their atypical speed



So which is it?


(that's a rhetorical question btw).
Jimmy Thrace
Amarrian Enterprise Institute
#19 - 2017-05-03 22:19:09 UTC
I don't understand your point Magnus, do you disagree with the rationale behind these ships not having space to fit a web alongside the standard prop mod and point is that, by virtue of being laser-based boats, they can fight outside of web range even with their close range weapon system?

I mean, I know some people like to fit a web and a prop mod on some of these ships sometimes and hope that the target either chooses not to warp off or doesn't notice that he can warp off, but I can't imagine that being the core idea behind the design?
Magnus Jax
#20 - 2017-05-03 22:26:32 UTC
Your initial statement is that Amarrian ships don't really use a web since a lot of them are so fast, and then you point to the Slicer.

No, most of them are slow with some very atypically fast exceptions.
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