These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Solution to afk cloaky griefers
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Elderel
Front Line Logistics
#1 - 2012-01-23 10:23:10 UTC
Was discussing some of the proposed ideas for addressing cloaky grieving with the corp a few nights back and stumbled across what may just be a viable solution that makes both sides happy with the implementation.

The now defunct System Scanning Array POS module could be redesigned as a sovereignty upgrade. The way we envisioned it working went through a few revisions as we discussed the issues with each model.

1) Hourly pulse that disrupted all cloaking devices in a system for 5-10 minutes.
2) Multiple hour pulse that disrupted all cloaking in a system for 30 minutes.
3) Activated module that disrupts all cloaking in a system for 5-10 minutes with a 30 or 60 minute recycle time.

We ended up liking version 3 for a lot of reasons - people actually at the controls aren't who we hate to see in local for 12+ hours at a time, people that log in, cloak and go to work/school/incursion on their main are the ones we're all tired of seeing in local. Online games should favor active play over passive and cloaks do exactly the opposite with no real solution in sight. Yes, I know probes and such to disrupt cloaks have been suggested, quite literally, hundreds (maybe thousands even) of times and are always suggestions without drawbacks to the people wanting to find a cloaked pilot - I don't care about the loss of friendly and personal cloaking if it requires *everyone* to actually be at their computers and playing the game to impact the ability of others to play the game they way they want.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#2 - 2012-01-23 10:27:29 UTC
Why is this needed and what does it solve?

Cloaking and going AFK, requires the same amount of effort, that gathering intel from the local channel requires. The difference is that the psychological effects from AFKing are not guaranteed, whereas the intel from local is.

If you want a change/nerf to cloaking, then you should also add in changes to local. That is if you are actually after a balanced approach.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Elderel
Front Line Logistics
#3 - 2012-01-23 10:31:26 UTC
Why does any suggestion for a change to cloaking get answered with calls for a change to local? Do you people really not understand just how retardedly unbalanced cloaking currently is in favor of the cloaked?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#4 - 2012-01-23 10:33:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Elderel wrote:
Why does any suggestion for a change to cloaking get answered with calls for a change to local? Do you people really not understand just how retardedly unbalanced cloaking currently is in favor of the cloaked?
OK answer me this:

What mechanic are they using to interact with you, to create the psychological effects?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-01-23 10:35:01 UTC
Not again? Roll

Please consult this thread concerning afk cloaking issues.

Despite that, it already looks like CCP are looking into a proposed cloaky hunter ship as per the recent CSM minutes.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#6 - 2012-01-23 10:37:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
did only read first few sentences.

there is no griefing, space isnt yours so everybody may sit whereever he likes. you should have known that before going to zero.
Syndic Thrass
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-01-23 10:38:05 UTC
How many times have you died to a cloaked ship that had no one at the keyboard?

I've never heard of someone getting killed by an AFK cloakie.

Reguards, Iskies-mommies-toonies-corpies-goonies 0707 m8m8m8
Elderel
Front Line Logistics
#8 - 2012-01-23 10:50:44 UTC
That's the problem with cloaking as it's existed since it's introduction to EvE - actual interaction isn't necessary to disrupt operations in a system. Any cloaked ship is a possible cyno-beacon away from being anything from a small cov-ops gang to a full blown titan bridged fleet drop and anyone that's been in nullsec more than a week has been expensively reminded of this reality on at least the corp level. The fact that there's no way to find a cloaked ship once it's established in system is an amazingly broken mechanic that should really have been addressed before cloaks were ever introduced to the game.


Yes Grumpy, I'm aware of both that thread and the latest CSM minutes which is what we were discussing to generate this idea. It's less design intensive (and far more balanced) than a new ship, there's no training required, tying it into the sov system doesn't make cloaks useless and requires alliances make at least a nominal sacrifice to deter afk cloaky griefers, and the effects impact everyone equally which is something I guarantee the current CCP plan doesn't do. As for people that choose to live in npc nullsec not getting to use this solution, there are costs to every decision.
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-01-23 10:53:42 UTC
Syndic Thrass wrote:
How many times have you died to a cloaked ship that had no one at the keyboard?

I've never heard of someone getting killed by an AFK cloakie.


Not empty quoting.

Answer the question: when was the last time someone died to a person that was AFK?
CynoNet Two
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2012-01-23 10:55:30 UTC
Feligast wrote:
Syndic Thrass wrote:
How many times have you died to a cloaked ship that had no one at the keyboard?

I've never heard of someone getting killed by an AFK cloakie.


Not empty quoting.

Answer the question: when was the last time someone died to a person that was AFK?


I did see a bot malfunction and shoot blues once...
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-01-23 10:56:49 UTC
CynoNet Two wrote:
Feligast wrote:
Syndic Thrass wrote:
How many times have you died to a cloaked ship that had no one at the keyboard?

I've never heard of someone getting killed by an AFK cloakie.


Not empty quoting.

Answer the question: when was the last time someone died to a person that was AFK?


I did see a bot malfunction and shoot blues once...


It wasn't cloaked, thus, not AFK cloaking.
Syndic Thrass
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-01-23 10:58:45 UTC
Elderel wrote:
That's the problem with cloaking as it's existed since it's introduction to EvE - actual interaction isn't necessary to disrupt operations in a system. Any cloaked ship is a possible cyno-beacon away from being anything from a small cov-ops gang to a full blown titan bridged fleet drop and anyone that's been in nullsec more than a week has been expensively reminded of this reality on at least the corp level. The fact that there's no way to find a cloaked ship once it's established in system is an amazingly broken mechanic that should really have been addressed before cloaks were ever introduced to the game.


Yes Grumpy, I'm aware of both that thread and the latest CSM minutes which is what we were discussing to generate this idea. It's less design intensive (and far more balanced) than a new ship, there's no training required, tying it into the sov system doesn't make cloaks useless and requires alliances make at least a nominal sacrifice to deter afk cloaky griefers, and the effects impact everyone equally which is something I guarantee the current CCP plan doesn't do. As for people that choose to live in npc nullsec not getting to use this solution, there are costs to every decision.

Wait wait wait wait. Slow down just one second there partner. Are you trying to tell me EVE is a sandbox where my actions can affect you? This is not what I signed up for.

Reguards, Iskies-mommies-toonies-corpies-goonies 0707 m8m8m8
Syndic Thrass
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-01-23 10:59:39 UTC
hope this helps

Reguards, Iskies-mommies-toonies-corpies-goonies 0707 m8m8m8
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-01-23 11:16:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Elderel wrote:

Yes Grumpy, I'm aware of both that thread and the latest CSM minutes which is what we were discussing to generate this idea. It's less design intensive (and far more balanced) than a new ship, there's no training required, tying it into the sov system doesn't make cloaks useless and requires alliances make at least a nominal sacrifice to deter afk cloaky griefers, and the effects impact everyone equally which is something I guarantee the current CCP plan doesn't do. As for people that choose to live in npc nullsec not getting to use this solution, there are costs to every decision.


So its ok for people who have trained into cloaky specific ships where its there main defence by design to waste their SP it seems? But not sensible for a counter ship?

Please provide the place where you got the crystal ball for the CCP plans for the cloaky hunter, I'd like to buy one. Or has the CSM been leaking more NDA materials?

As an example of how narrow minded you are: acording to your interactive pulse system anybody wanting to transport goods in a blockade runner through SOV in your systems could have a nasty suprise waiting for him as a result of gate watching their approach or their gate flash. Way to remove the usefulness of one ship in a simple "foul" swoop.

Then there is the effective removal of any reasonable covert intel role.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#15 - 2012-01-23 11:27:56 UTC
Elderel wrote:
That's the problem with cloaking as it's existed since it's introduction to EvE - actual interaction isn't necessary to disrupt operations in a system. Any cloaked ship is a possible cyno-beacon away from being anything from a small cov-ops gang to a full blown titan bridged fleet drop and anyone that's been in nullsec more than a week has been expensively reminded of this reality on at least the corp level. The fact that there's no way to find a cloaked ship once it's established in system is an amazingly broken mechanic that should really have been addressed before cloaks were ever introduced to the game.


Yes Grumpy, I'm aware of both that thread and the latest CSM minutes which is what we were discussing to generate this idea. It's less design intensive (and far more balanced) than a new ship, there's no training required, tying it into the sov system doesn't make cloaks useless and requires alliances make at least a nominal sacrifice to deter afk cloaky griefers, and the effects impact everyone equally which is something I guarantee the current CCP plan doesn't do. As for people that choose to live in npc nullsec not getting to use this solution, there are costs to every decision.


what the problem exactly?
What you trying to describe is the usual eve gameplay, ships shoot other ships, ships drop other ships, cynoalts everywhere.
Its normality, there is nothing broken.

For people like you who want an "own" piece of space without the fear of afk cloakers and hotdrops, CCP created wormhole space.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#16 - 2012-01-23 11:34:03 UTC
You haven't answered my question yet Elderel.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Bent Barrel
#17 - 2012-01-23 11:35:32 UTC
Elderel wrote:
Was discussing some of the proposed ideas for addressing cloaky grieving with the corp a few nights back and stumbled across what may just be a viable solution that makes both sides happy with the implementation.

The now defunct System Scanning Array POS module could be redesigned as a sovereignty upgrade. The way we envisioned it working went through a few revisions as we discussed the issues with each model.

1) Hourly pulse that disrupted all cloaking devices in a system for 5-10 minutes.
2) Multiple hour pulse that disrupted all cloaking in a system for 30 minutes.
3) Activated module that disrupts all cloaking in a system for 5-10 minutes with a 30 or 60 minute recycle time.

We ended up liking version 3 for a lot of reasons - people actually at the controls aren't who we hate to see in local for 12+ hours at a time, people that log in, cloak and go to work/school/incursion on their main are the ones we're all tired of seeing in local. Online games should favor active play over passive and cloaks do exactly the opposite with no real solution in sight. Yes, I know probes and such to disrupt cloaks have been suggested, quite literally, hundreds (maybe thousands even) of times and are always suggestions without drawbacks to the people wanting to find a cloaked pilot - I don't care about the loss of friendly and personal cloaking if it requires *everyone* to actually be at their computers and playing the game to impact the ability of others to play the game they way they want.


1st step: propose a solution to identify AFK CLOAKY GRIEFERS
2nd step: propose a solution to find and kill only those

Without 1st step you have not achieved your goal. You simply nerfed all cloaks.

Your solution affects both while yoru stated goal is different.
Blatant Forum Alt
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-01-23 11:50:01 UTC
How can afk cloaks harm you in any way? FFS grow a pair.
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#19 - 2012-01-23 13:54:44 UTC
Dear OP. Man up. Go play a single player game if you don't like sharing space with other people.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#20 - 2012-01-23 14:37:19 UTC
Same old drivel.....

OP claims that his solution is to stop AFK cloaking, when its really to dissrupt ALL cloaking from his safe little area of low/null security space.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
12Next page