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Tech 3 Hauler + Other New Hauler Ideas
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Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2017-04-29 01:12:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Chewytowel Haklar
Merin Ryskin wrote:
The problem with this idea is that the entire concept of a T3 hauler is broken. Switching modes makes sense on a T3D because it's a combat ship, and combat situations are diverse and often quickly changing. Having the ability to, say, close into range using speed mode before swapping to damage mode for the kill is a valuable asset. But with a hauler what exactly is changing once you undock? Cargo space is fixed by the amount of stuff you load before undocking, jump drive ability is decided when you're setting up your cyno chain and is pointless to add while in space, etc. The only real swap that makes any sense is if you had some kind of travel speed bonus in one mode and nullification in another, and could swap to bubble immunity if you happened to hit a bubble camp. And that's a lot of complexity to add for something that is equivalent to a role bonus of "this ship is immune to bubbles unless you're dumb enough to jump into a bubble camp with your mode switch timer still active".


Well people will cargo scan you, hunt you down if carrying valuable goods (or even nothing), and you could switch modes in this Tech 3 hauler concept based on need as a result. I mean maybe to make it more valuable it needs a 'defensive mode' to help at least in its capability to resist any attacks as a reaction. So Corp members could maybe get there in time to help save your hauler? So you can switch between Nullified/Defensive/Speed (removing the jump drive option) as needed likely with a switch timer. The problem though is that apparently a nullified hauler would be questionable according the last two contributors so that option might need to be removed due to gameplay issues.

The concept may be greatly flawed unless there is some intelligent way to make it work. It may just be too op or impractical even if the idea to me seemed very cool in concept.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#22 - 2017-04-29 02:40:21 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
Well people will cargo scan you, hunt you down if carrying valuable goods (or even nothing), and you could switch modes in this Tech 3 hauler concept based on need as a result.


This only matters in highsec, where the proposed jump drive and nullifier options are pointless. So unless you need to use max cargo mode (in which case you can't ever switch until you dock and unload) you'd just fly in permanent tank mode.

(And of course the primary defense against suicide ganking is being smart with your cargo choices and staying under the profitable gank limit, which mode-swapping doesn't really help with.)

Quote:
So Corp members could maybe get there in time to help save your hauler?


Never going to happen. Unless you give this thing such obscene tank bonuses that it becomes easily exploitable for other uses (heavy tackle, anyone?) it's going to be dead long before any call for help can bring reinforcements. And anywhere outside of highsec, where CONCORD is going to save you within ~30 seconds, scouting is far more effective than trying to tank an attack and pray for help to arrive.
Cade Windstalker
#23 - 2017-04-29 02:44:29 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
First off, I appreciate you taking the time to give this feedback and look into this concept like you have, so thank you! My original idea, before this one, was simply a hauler that had cargo space somewhere between the tech 1 haulers we have now and jump freighters/freighters. So a normal tech 1 hauler with around 100km3 cargo space that requires maybe just a racial industrial 3 train, and can carry a large packed ship or two when moving goods. It would be cheaper than a freighter and a much shorter train to get into.

I took that idea and blew it up a bit with the tech 3 concept thinking why stop there (my mind has a tendency to jump ahead at times)? So perhaps it isn't doable or logical, but I really would like a smaller jump freighter option as well if at all possible. There is of course the option to train into black ops just to be able to utilize jump tech like you said though. And Danika did make a pretty good point with simply using a Rorqual for smaller loads for certain types of hauls. Maybe this idea of a small jump freighter isn't appealing to the community, but for me a ship that required a shorter train possibly and was lesser in cost could be a 'baby steps' jump ship option, or something utilized for smaller operations I suppose.


Like I said, I think you could make a decent case for a Jump Industrial that doesn't do much besides jump with maybe 20km3, since you can already do the same thing with three characters and a Black Ops. Price it somewhere in the 800m-1.2b range and you're basically just letting someone do the same thing with one less character and a little less fuel.

The problem with an intermediate hauler option isn't that it wouldn't be appealing, it's that it wouldn't be appealing in any state where it would be balanced, or balanced in any state where it would be really appealing.

It's not really any one thing there, any one of those issues can be tweaked around, it's the combination of the factors that make a ship an efficient hauler, gankable or not, and the cost associated with either of those.
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