EVE General Discussion

Unfortunately you're still here. All hail the Troll Queen Jenn aSide.

Dracvlad's forum signature is right, definitely time to block you as well.


DMC

"Safe" games are boring. On the flip side wasting my time is extremely irritating.

Most PVE players that I know welcome and actively seek a challenge. What irks us to no end is somebody coming to waste our time. Most other games call this griefing. That ganked metric has been debunked several times already. Even if true all it says is that PVP players like PVP (um, duh?).

Before you get your knickers in a twist I think that making hi-sec a PVP free zone is an awful idea and for the most part hi-sec is reasonably safe enough to be attractive to PVE players. Of course in my perspective there are a couple of glaring exceptions.

The consequences for suicide ganking are not harsh enough to prevent what I and what I suspect most PVE focused players consider grief play. Unfortunately I do not have a good answer how to solve that without damaging the flavor of EVE. Maybe if there was some alternative that made hi-sec piracy viable I could point in that direction.

Wardecs are a bigger problem and one that's actively harming the retention of PvE players. Out of the last nine weeks my main's corp was wardec'd only one made any legitimate effort the rest were tradehub killboard padding (griefing). The week with the real threat was mildly amusing for an evening but the rest was pretty lame (station games). Spent most of it playing an alt or operating elsewhere.

A good indicator of player retention is guild participation. The hands-down best way for a PVE player to deal with a wardec is to drop corp, log out or dock up. Wardecs actively discourage PVE folks from social engagement. Any mechanic that encourages not playing directly harms retention.

There needs to be a way for a corporation to exempt themselves from wardecs without making it crushingly expensive for small corps. Tie it to POS ownership or make it consensual or something.

Here's another statistic for you: Players that exclusively PVE or PVP are rare. Most MMO players at least dabble in many aspects. Most PvE players will voluntarily engage in PvP eventually but if don't let them dictate the pace at which they do it they'll just find another game that doesn't insist on wasting their time.

After all that hot air I am not advocating any change unless CCP sees the need for it. They seem to be struggling with how to appeal to PvE players and mostly I think that's because they don't understand what motivates us. What I wrote above is my small attempt to give some insight.

"PvP is the most rewarding" -- CCP_Ghost. Thanks for the spit-take



http://kotaku.com/5057189/star-wars-galaxies-designer-jeff-freeman-dies

"Freeman's brother tells the Escapist that 'personal issues', not the fury SWG players were at the root cause of his decision to take his own life."

SWG was one of those cult classic games. Very loyal but very small fan base. Once WoW demonstrated the revenue potential of MMO's "very small" became "very uninteresting" to the money folks.

There should be killmails for forum PvP. CCPls?

Hahaha, keep skiing down that Bandini Mountain of BS you trolls keep spewing out.

I don't have to defend anything, the proof was already linked, it's your problem you lack reading comprehension.



DMC

Dracvlad's forum signature seems to be an exclusive club for the wisest and most rational capsuleers. I often dream of being invited to this elite company.

Though it will only happen spontaneously, as I fail to find the entertainment value in the recruiter's posts, and I always get bored halfway before it would provoke a reply from me. Or maybe I'll just need to work harder to be worthy.


I really exprected more from you than such bitter cynism. We have lost a potential content creator, not to mention the revenue to the devs! You guys should also know better than anyone that it's pointless to expect things from CCP, and you should take the matters in your own hands.

That miner could have been saved! We -knew- his endangered opinion will only meet resentment, but no other way out was offered to him. We are all at fault here. But I think I know the solution to avoid such a senseless waste of forum-lives!


Start selling Forum Permits!

It only costs 10 million ISK, and valid for a FULL year. Displaying your Forum Permit in your signature ensures that Agents of the Forum will side with you during any discussion where the holder of the document displays ignorance of facts, sense and methods to forumulate at least an argument that looks valid from a certain distance. Of course it also guarantees that the Agent's under no circumstance will resort to sarcasm during discussions that permit holders are involved in.

Wish I could think of someone good enough with words who could draft the details of such contract..

For years and almost every ganking thread that has been created, the pro gank community have always said ganking is not profitable, is just for the lol's and therefore should be allowed. Miner ganking I agree, hauler ganking completely disagree. Hauler ganking is extremely profitable. High sec should not be 100% safe either. Long ago I used to be a ganker, but imo it's as boring as hell.

If you look at certain systems, Poinen, Uedama and Niarja in particular, the amount of isk made from loot drops, compared to total isk in ships lost by gankers is staggeringly one sided. These groups say they are "protecting" high sec players and enforcing what they feel is the proper amount to haul. In reality, it's the easiest and quickest way to make billions per hour, while risking very, very little in the way of assets of their own.

In my eyes, the true gankers are the "miner gankers" that are doing it more for the lol's than isk. This type of combat should be kept in the game and even somewhat encouraged, while the hauler gankers need a major hit with the nerf bat.

So since almost all gankers claim it's for the lol's and not profitable, ganking should be allowed to continue in high sec. I would propose even delaying Concord response slightly during criminal activity. However, any criminal activity resulting in a ship being killed means there are no longer loot drops from the targeted, destroyed ship.

This idea should not be an issue for gankers, since they are only doing this activity for fun anyway, while still creating risk for high sec players as miners, haulers and pvers can still be ganked with the possibly of even less Concord intervention.

Ganking will most likely never go away, but this is a way to make sure it's for fun and not for the isk faucet currently being used by the giant null sec alliances.

For those who will whine that they can't afford to keep losing a 3 mil isk catalyst during a gank without getting loot in return, they better find a different career, like mining perhaps.

Go miner ganking for 6 months and tell me how profitable it is, if your lucky you'll break even.





This is not miner ganking, it's mostly DST hauler ganking, which is super profitable and in one case done with 7 alphas. At least do some research before commenting.

The profit isn't necessarily in the loot drop; I know for a fact that more than a few of the gankers that target miners are also in the business of selling mining ships and equipment, they consider the cost of ganking miners to be a marketing expense.

Your problem is thinking too small, in a game where pretty much anything goes people can and do explore the devious side of themselves.

Right back at ya.

I don't care about gankers wallets, the only way gankers affect me (on the odd occasion I have no choice but to deal with high sec, it really is my least favorite part of EVE) is that they are just another obstacle to be overcome, to avoid and to be defeated (publicly if at all possible).

The people who spend time worrying about how hard or how easy that game is for people they obviously dislike are really saying "I can' beat these people on my own, I need leverage". This is not to say that sometimes people like that might accidentally have a point, just saying that the last person you want to solicit an opinion from is someone who doesn't like the thing in the 1st place.

In every. Damn. Thread.

Just skip over it, if there's anything of substance in there, it's not worth wading through his verbosity to find it.