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Trade Hubs
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NanDe YaNen
Moira.
#21 - 2017-04-26 14:58:27 UTC
Maximillian Bonaparte wrote:
I see about 4 open trade fortizars in Hek but there is still no growth there...as far as I can tell.


Follow me to Utopia. I'm moving there in a few weeks. THE LIBERAL AGENDA ratchets forward with smooth progress, glibly pronounced. I may pass through Kor-azor on the way.

Everyone and their dog thinks they will be the new Citadel in highsec, but the reality is that you're waiting for a chaotic accretion and the only way onto the map will be hiring a legion of people to run around and place cans and shout about you in local.

Yeah, it's an advertising war. Welcome to Eve Online.
Maximillian Bonaparte
Interstellar Booty Hunters
#22 - 2017-04-26 17:52:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximillian Bonaparte
NanDe YaNen wrote:
Maximillian Bonaparte wrote:
I see about 4 open trade fortizars in Hek but there is still no growth there...as far as I can tell.


Follow me to Utopia. I'm moving there in a few weeks. THE LIBERAL AGENDA ratchets forward with smooth progress, glibly pronounced. I may pass through Kor-azor on the way.

Everyone and their dog thinks they will be the new Citadel in highsec, but the reality is that you're waiting for a chaotic accretion and the only way onto the map will be hiring a legion of people to run around and place cans and shout about you in local.

Yeah, it's an advertising war. Welcome to Eve Online.



Well...that's the crux of the problem then isn't it?

Unlike before citadels everywhere but Jita there is now competition on which ones to use, and now for manufacturing and research as well as trade.
Jita still offers the best supply chains for research and manufacturing; especially now that you have alternatives to Jita 4-4, but 4-4 is still 'neutral ground' for trading most things - it is a quintessential positive feedback loop.
These activities are not concentrated enough in the other trade hubs (or former trade hubs).

This could be a problem for the game in general if most of the traffic in eve concentrates in the Jita area while the rest of space (mostly highsec and lowsec) becomes more sparsely populated.

Of course I could missing one thing and that is buy orders. Perhaps long term buy orders can benefit in areas far from Jita since many people cant be assed to haul their stuff to jita to sell.

Interstellar Booty Hunters - Pirate Small Gang PvP Forever!
Punisher Ofara
Amar Adventurers
#23 - 2017-04-27 07:50:50 UTC
What was the original reason that Jita became the main hub? Is it something like that in the early days of Eve, most people chose Caldari as their race, and their starting location was near or in Jita?
NanDe YaNen
Moira.
#24 - 2017-04-27 11:45:52 UTC
Punisher Ofara wrote:
What was the original reason that Jita became the main hub? Is it something like that in the early days of Eve, most people chose Caldari as their race, and their starting location was near or in Jita?


Feedback mechanisms existed and there are few dampening forces so while there may have been factors that favored the probability of Jita getting ahead far enough in feedback to come to dominate, ultimately it is chaos, a system very sensitive to initial conditions. Slight changes in local population movement patterns in the early days of the game could have made large changes.

A cabal of traders could have sought to concentrate all throughput in a station where they had some marginal advantages. There could have been a trigger.

Whatever the case, the feedback mechanisms sealed it and the wide spreads we currently experience have somewhat amplified the effect.

If you could start eve from the beginning the feedback would concentrate all trade into hubs and the number of hubs would always be related to the cost of transport and market spreads.

If you want to participate in the next cabal, I suggest preparing for war next fall and joining or allying with Liberal Universalists.
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#25 - 2017-04-28 13:29:03 UTC
NanDe YaNen wrote:


Feedback mechanisms existed and there are few dampening forces so while there may have been factors that favored the probability of Jita getting ahead far enough in feedback to come to dominate, ultimately it is chaos, a system very sensitive to initial conditions. Slight changes in local population movement patterns in the early days of the game could have made large changes.

A cabal of traders could have sought to concentrate all throughput in a station where they had some marginal advantages. There could have been a trigger.

Whatever the case, the feedback mechanisms sealed it and the wide spreads we currently experience have somewhat amplified the effect.

If you could start eve from the beginning the feedback would concentrate all trade into hubs and the number of hubs would always be related to the cost of transport and market spreads.

If you want to participate in the next cabal, I suggest preparing for war next fall and joining or allying with Liberal Universalists.


I wonder what was original language of that google-translated wall of text...

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Henry Tesero
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2017-05-14 01:42:34 UTC
NanDe YaNen wrote:
Spreads are controlled by brokerage fees and taxes. Brokerage fees went up, so there became a 7% gap basically where traders can't create any liquidity without losing money. If you want to buy or sell, sure, you can just place an order and don't need to worry about going back across the spread. However, this requires volume for you to get that 3-4% extra when transacting goods. Volume comes with concentration of players. This favors one hub for all trade.

The rise in brokerage fees is what is concentrating players into one hub. The citadels are what will spread it back out. I'm looking for a resident citadel with a savvy owner who has a low brokerage fee in nullsec.

Liberal Universalists has much to say on this and other topics. Channel KORNS public.


And CCP plans to raise the brokerage fee again. I'm sure it's been suggested before but why not adjust the NPC station fees based on utilization similar to the way manufacturing system index is done. Could spread people out again.

As for why Jita in the early days, I thought it had more to do with location, being only a few jumps from low sec and most regions.
NanDe YaNen
Moira.
#27 - 2017-05-18 11:40:27 UTC
I've been somewhat detaching from the conversation while diving into faction warfare. Since my return, I've explored enough citadels and flipped enough goods in null, low, and hisec to draw some conclusions about where things are headed, but you don't need to look hard.

The iChooseYou trade hubs and Planet V are picking up enough sales and orders to become relevant in highsec. I see this as a growing fulcrum in warfare in Eve. I do not see it as the necessary center of the changes.

I am building a different identity for my corporation. I don't want to Liberal Universalists to be known primarily as the citadel owners but primarily as the station traders who shoot things.

I'll be getting more active in recruitment and establishment of policy to keep that identity focused in the coming months. In the meantime, I'm having fun marketing LP goods, nullsec materials, modules while bulk-fitting ships for myself, and dodging pirates to get into Inquisitor-Punisher gangs etc etc.

Don't worry about the trade hub stuff. Become good at market making and weak markets are your best markets. I am training people on how to do this in the public channel, KORNS Public, and I will be recruiting pew pew people for faction warfare and consequent LP marketing schemes. My corp is ready to start forming its identity by taking in members who want 50% of their game to be station trading and contracting while the other half is shooting people to facilitate and further the first half.
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