EVE General Discussion

That's not what a fact is mate.

A fact is something where you can point to data or some other kind of hard evidence to back up your assertions and support your conclusions.

You seem to have come to a conclusion based on your own views of the game, looked around for tiny scraps of evidence to support it (the few other people complaining on the forums about similar issues), and ignored anything remotely contradictory to your views on the matter.

Wanna see a real slope in the player numbers? Make High Sec perfectly safe. The slope from that will look like a sheer cliff.

Let me answer/explain the underlined bold for you, or try to...........

To not have PvP in highsec,
1.) You can not allow players to sell or buy things on the market.
2.) You can not allow players to mine the stuff they mine now, all rocks would have to become the stuff only NPC's would use/buy.
3.) You can not allow players to build stuff, as anything they build is used in market pvp, or once purchased by others to condone in PVP of some sort.
4.) You can not allow players to place/own any structures like PoCo's/Citadel's/Eginerring Complex's
5.) You can not allow players to loot or salvage anything that will enable PvP (markets, or what not)
6.) You will have to remove anoms, scannable or otherwise because the promote PvP at their very basic.
7.) You can allow players to receive ISK from missions, and even LP.....but all LP stores must also be removed from said non-PvP zone(s).

hmmm, not sure i could go on here, not much left......but that is and what must be done in EvE if you wish to make a particular place (ie Highsec) a PvP-free zone.

Because.........
1.) Marketing is PvP
2.) Mining is PvP
3.) Missioning is a gateway to PvP
4.) Exploration is PvP, well all the anoms is PvP
5.) Manufacturing is PvP
6.) PI is PvP
7.) well ****........the whole game is PvP........

You sir might as well as uninstall, you do not want to PvP so there is no place here for you i guess.
Unless of course your commentary is simply your way of Trolling, then i guess you are PvP'ing in a way.

Practicing your meditation techniques?

hmmm, well question for you Teros?

How long have you been playing EvE?
I myself have been playing since 2010, and your 'not'-unique perspective on things does not ring any more true than it did back then.

(and yes, this obviously not my very first character but it has been my main for awhile now)

So, this would be a better question for the MER comments thread and CCP Quant but I'll take a stab at it. This is only my interpretation, does not say anything about CCP or their uses for that graph, ect.

So yes that ISK isn't being deleted, at least most of it. It's a snapshot of the economy and reflects nothing more than how much ISK is currently in circulation. The Active ISK Delta reflects how much ISK is removed or added from players coming back or leaving as well as bans and removal of assets through GM actions. For example if someone generates 12T ISK over the last six months and, for the sake of argument, just lets it sit in their wallet then even if CCP don't ban the character they will remove that ISK since it was obtained through an exploit.

It's noted down precisely because it can't affect the economy and it does serve as a functional sink for ISK and should be taken into account in CCP's calculations of sinks and faucets.

If you note that spike at the end of this graph CCP Quant responded in the MER thread for this month that that spike is actually due to a bunch of returning players, so apparently the latest patch brought a lot of people back into the game and they brought a combined 30T or so ISK with them.

I'm really quite certain that spike in the last 15 or so days of the graph is in fact returning players. I wasn't being facetious when I said "CCP Quant responded" he literally said that's what that is. The reason the ISK removed by players this past month seems to be low is because a bunch came back and became active.

Look again. As you progress beyond T1 frigates insurance moves from barely covering the hull to paying out only a fraction of the hull's cost.

Using the figures from http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/Mar_2017/9a_sinksfaucets.png :

(in billions)
Cost of Insurance: 4,003
Manufacturing fees: 3,379
Repair Bill: 106
Copying: 104
Total sink: 7,592

Insurance paid out: 7,465

Which is 127B net sink.

But wait! If you factor in all or part of the Transaction Tax 10,671 sink... that's quite a sink indeed.

This is a *really* dubious conclusion verging on being incorrect just based on how far it's stretching the cause and effect chain from destruction. This applies to both you and Neville, production is tied to destruction but not directly, and not everything that's destroyed goes through the market when it's replaced. For example a large amount of Null losses are replaced by manufacturing these days, and the finished ships distributed through contracts for a very low fee relative to market tax.

So, first off, insurance is a net supplier of ISK no matter how you slice it. Your assertion that insurance only pays out well for a T1 Frigate is just incorrect. It varies by hull but most T1 ships pay out a substantial portion of the base cost of the hull in ISK, making the actual value lost to the player only in the modules and the initial cost of the insurance.

Also all ships receive a base amount of insurance for no ISK at all, and any of these destroyed ships generate a net payout from insurance as well.

You've also bundled a whole bunch of buckets into "things caused by PvP" when that's not really the case. BP copying isn't driven entirely or directly by PvP, neither is repairs, those are driven as much or more by PvE than PvP since these days with Citadels PvP repairs can be handled for free quickly and easily.

Same goes for manufacturing fees, a large amount of stuff is consumed in non-PvP activities or in things that aren't directly tied to PvP.

So yeah, this is just really dubious from top to bottom, starting with the assertion you were trying to refute.

Yes, PvP drives the Eve economy, but in any reasonable or measurable sense PvP is still a net ISK printer as far as sinks and faucets are concerned.