Player Features and Ideas Discussion

We've been over this so much the horse isn't just fertilizer it's an apple tree.

Jump Fatigue sucks, having people being able to quickly and effortlessly move Capitals around the game sucks worse. No one wants everywhere in Eve to be less than 15 minutes away from PL or Goons' staging system.

A lot of alternatives have been discussed, every one has either had worse downsides for gameplay or has been fairly easily exploitable to move force around extremely easily.

There are some excellent alternatives ;) Change the Jump fatigue to a "mode" for ships used in force projection. A carrier/dread should be able to jump once weapons ready. "Jump Fatigue" (and the factors that reduce it for some ships vs. others) makes no sense, is immersion breaking and makes us "space faring" capsules sound like we get dizzy in space travel. It's an ill conceived, knee-jerk reaction to a bunch of whining.

You do realise that you wait just as long without the loading screens as before, right?

All that CCP did was hide them with a pretty graphic.

At no point in the history of gaming has a loading screen been a gameplay mechanic. [/quote]

My point wasn't the difference between loading screens and game mechanics. My point was that CCP was working to get rid of immersion breaking crap (like loading screens).

Jump Fatigue is immersion breaking crap. Sitting around wait for some stupid timer to expire so you can keep moving stuff around the universe adds an undue burden to a process that is already painful. If CCP is going to insist that jump fatigue has to stay, then give us something to do while we wait. 10 Minutes on a cyno generator and jump fatigue are in the same school of crappy mechanics that do nothing to increase game enjoyment.

Consequently, it's easy to avert the jump fatigue and simply train multiple toons who can fly the same ship. Something I am sure CCP enjoys since that will encourage more spending by players to work around the stupid mechanics of the game. My corp, for example, has a crap load of alts... who can all fly jump freighters. They simply, strategically, place their alts and hand the ship over from toon to toon... essentially avoiding the mechanic all together. The same for the carriers.

My point is that the mechanic is crap, pointless, and dull adding more drudgery to the game play.

Yes, jump fatigue DOES stop it. That is not what we do at all, and I am saying this as a person with four capital pilot characters, and a member of one of said larger entities.

I guess we've seen different things ;)

CCP has been good at balance. The balance for force projection is not to penalize all the jump ships in the game. The key is in methods of countering force projection. Cyno disruption (chance based redirection of jump ships) and so on. Something like a cyno counter mod that can fire off when a cyno goes up in system and so on. Force projection is the problem, and the fix is not a bunch of dizzy/fatigued space pilots.

I don't disagree with you there. But the key should be counter-tactics not dizzy pilots.

They should focus just on force projection rather than punishing all of the jump ships in the game. There are far many more uses for a jump drive than to move a "gun" to a battle... Just lazy of CCP. There are far more nails in the coffin than force projection at this point... CCP caving to "pay-to-win", skill injectors and the like...

Low Sec has seen a lot more local Capital action as well, without the worry of being 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th,... and etc partied on a slow weekend because a carrier bumped off the docking ring on jump-in.

Yes, it did happen. a few times.

So, in order:

"Travel mode" has been proposed. This was one of the first things proposed as an alternative and every thread where it's been seriously discussed has ripped it to shreds. Some common points/issue include but are not limited to:

• Putting the mode or limit on the ship encourages "travel pilots" that move the ship independent of the combat pilots.


• If you make it super fast and easy to move the hulls around you make it amazingly easy to redeploy forces, something CCP explicitly wanted to prevent. Power projection is not just hot-drop o'clock.


• Options that might alleviate either of these end up locking down the ship or the pilot for an inordinate amount of time because it has to be balanced for the worst case of use, not the average which is quite small.

Every version of this discussion has circled back around to something very close to Jump Fatigue in terms of mechanics, effect, and implementation. Like I said, apple tree. A quick search of the forums can find you any number of threads on this topic.



Nothing is ever going to be not immersion breaking for everyone. Everyone is going to have some mechanic or thing that had to be added for gameplay reasons that they either don't like and dress up that dislike as "it breaks immersion!" or they just can't countenance the mechanical necessity with their views on how the game world should work.

This won't be the first time it happens and it won't be the last. It certainly won't be the last time "it breaks my immersion" is not sufficient reason for a bad gameplay decision.



Yeah this is just flatly false. These days if someone wants to drop more than two midpoints from staging they need to play at least a week in advance even with Dread-caches and other fun tricks like that.

The reality is that stuff like this is really expensive in time and resources, even for the major entities, and there's a good chance that if the person you're dropping has any kind of potential force advantage you could get pasted completely because you misjudged the numbers and don't have a Super fleet ready to bail you out.

You know, because it's 10 jumps and four days away on the other side of the game.

There may eventually come a time when this becomes a problem, but we'll nuke that bridge when we get to it. In the meantime the system works, and that is the consensus of the vast majority of Null groups, even the ones who *hate it* and railed against it saying it would do nothing and/or kill Cap use.

The reality is that we've actually had *more* cap and super use since Jump Fatigue went into the game, and more of these ships are killing stuff and dying hilariously than before the changes.

Not flatly false ;) I have watched in action more than once. That's how we manage our jump freighters by passing toon to toon. We've jumped the fatigue hurdle a number of times and it's not that hard... but as you say, you do have to move stuff around. It's more painful for the single toon accounts which is where the revenue comes in for CCP. While it may not be logistically feasible to do force projection by handing ships off, it is very easy to do jump freighters and using carriers for logistics... as you have a set path and pre-determined route.

So, maybe false to you... but not for me watching it happen.

Thanks for the input though. I still argue that counter-tactics are the better solution than forcing everyone into fatigue.