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Expanded Orehold - Updated
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manus
Subhypersonics
#41 - 2017-04-17 17:58:28 UTC  |  Edited by: manus
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
manus wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
AFK play is not something CCP wants to encourage.


What do you mean by AFK play? Do you consider mining AFK play?

AFK play means you're doing stuff while not actually at the keyboard. If I'm in a Skiff and watching for hostiles while mining, that's at keyboard, even if I watch Netflix while I mine. AFK play would be firing up a Retriever's mining lasers and then tabbing out to play another game. Mining and ratting can be AFK play, but they don't have to be.


Nice try, but i dont see the difference between firing your lasers and watching netflix or fplaying another game. And obviously the less attention you pay while in space the more risk and the less isk you gonna make.
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#42 - 2017-04-17 20:25:55 UTC
manus wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
manus wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
AFK play is not something CCP wants to encourage.


What do you mean by AFK play? Do you consider mining AFK play?

AFK play means you're doing stuff while not actually at the keyboard. If I'm in a Skiff and watching for hostiles while mining, that's at keyboard, even if I watch Netflix while I mine. AFK play would be firing up a Retriever's mining lasers and then tabbing out to play another game. Mining and ratting can be AFK play, but they don't have to be.


Nice try, but i dont see the difference between firing your lasers and watching netflix or fplaying another game. And obviously the less attention you pay while in space the more risk and the less isk you gonna make.

The difference is that I'm still looking at the screen instead of tabbed out completely. The former is multitasking, the latter is being AFK.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Cade Windstalker
#43 - 2017-04-17 20:53:35 UTC
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
manus wrote:
Nice try, but i dont see the difference between firing your lasers and watching netflix or fplaying another game. And obviously the less attention you pay while in space the more risk and the less isk you gonna make.

The difference is that I'm still looking at the screen instead of tabbed out completely. The former is multitasking, the latter is being AFK.


And in case this wasn't painfully obvious, the more time you can take between interacting with the game client to accomplish a task the easier it is to AFK. In this case docking up and emptying your ore bay being the interaction in question.
manus
Subhypersonics
#44 - 2017-04-18 15:23:26 UTC  |  Edited by: manus
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
manus wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
manus wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
AFK play is not something CCP wants to encourage.


What do you mean by AFK play? Do you consider mining AFK play?

AFK play means you're doing stuff while not actually at the keyboard. If I'm in a Skiff and watching for hostiles while mining, that's at keyboard, even if I watch Netflix while I mine. AFK play would be firing up a Retriever's mining lasers and then tabbing out to play another game. Mining and ratting can be AFK play, but they don't have to be.


Nice try, but i dont see the difference between firing your lasers and watching netflix or fplaying another game. And obviously the less attention you pay while in space the more risk and the less isk you gonna make.

The difference is that I'm still looking at the screen instead of tabbed out completely. The former is multitasking, the latter is being AFK.


I think you are being redicolous. I mean things have gone too far when people concern themselves with things like this. "Its ok if he watches netflix while eve runs in the background, but if he plays another game he should be burned on a stake."

I mean if thats your best argument against Expanded Ore hold modules, i think its a go.
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#45 - 2017-04-18 16:48:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Deveron
manus wrote:


I think you are being redicolous. I mean things have gone too far when people concern themselves with things like this. "Its ok if he watches netflix while eve runs in the background, but if he plays another game he should be burned on a stake."

I mean if thats your best argument against Expanded Ore hold modules, i think its a go.



1.) promoting the AFK play attitude is also promoting the Bot script issues.
2.) CCP 'WILL' nerf the current size of ore holds to allow for such expanders,
2a.) Because they do not give straight Buffs/Nerfs anymore, they give both at the same time.
3.) Yes it is all right to being on the Forums, watching netflix, tv, etc....so long as you can still see your characters in the game and respond to any environmental changes.
4.) If you are unwilling/unable to play AK, and hence there fore AFK/Botting, then yes you deserve to be righteously Burned, Nuked, Flayed, Gored, SPitted at/on the stake.
4a.) In addition to this, if you whine, explode, stomp around or in other way excrete Flakes and Lumps of Salt, you deserve to be ridiculed, lambasted, wardecc'd, ganked, or otherwise a continuation of being F*cked with until you learn how to play EvE.


If any of this disgusts, triggers, vexes, you or otherwise cause you to lament in any other way.........then EvE is simply the wrong game for you and maybe you should go play something else for awhile, I hear Gevlon Goblin is looking for recruits in different games.
Cade Windstalker
#46 - 2017-04-18 18:54:42 UTC
manus wrote:
I think you are being redicolous. I mean things have gone too far when people concern themselves with things like this. "Its ok if he watches netflix while eve runs in the background, but if he plays another game he should be burned on a stake."

I mean if thats your best argument against Expanded Ore hold modules, i think its a go.


Thankfully for the rest of us CCP disagrees and they're the ones you have to convince. Just because you don't like an argument doesn't mean it's wrong or doesn't align with CCP's thinking.

Also, to be clear, because I don't agree with everything Max is saying. It's not that being AFK is a cardinal sin or anything, it's that CCP want you at the keyboard and engaged with the game if you're deriving some in-game benefit. They don't explicitly prohibit being AFK, but they do restrict the benefits you can gain from being AFK, and that includes limiting the ore bays on these ships so there's a maximum time you can spend AFK before you're essentially wasting time.
grgjegb gergerg
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#47 - 2017-04-22 07:52:53 UTC  |  Edited by: grgjegb gergerg
OH!

I thought of a perfect solution.

Take a freighter, add a single hislot capable of holding a strip miner (no bonuses), remove the other bonuses. I'd suggest the ship name "Veldnaught."

Job done.

(And because people cannot sense sarcasm, no, I am not serious.)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#48 - 2017-04-22 08:15:40 UTC
Personally I would do away with ore holds entirely. It should be up to the pilot to decide if they want max cargo at the expense of yeild and tank. As it is CCP have literally fitted the ship for you.
grgjegb gergerg
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#49 - 2017-04-22 08:41:22 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Personally I would do away with ore holds entirely. It should be up to the pilot to decide if they want max cargo at the expense of yeild and tank. As it is CCP have literally fitted the ship for you.

That is not what the word "literally" means, as they have not in fact fitted the ship.

You DO get to choose between laser upgrades and tank, though. I think it makes a lot of sense, that a mining ship would have a hold for what it creates.

Far better than back in the day when there were 5 flavors of Iteron, with only degrees of effectiveness to differentiate them.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#50 - 2017-04-22 09:32:33 UTC
I believe somewhere down the dev road the writer of the mission thought that this mission would be a good way to;


A. Get folks to work together (doesn't really work).


B. Can be used as a training mission for noobs as a way to show them how a mining op works.


C. Keep a solo player from farming.


D. All of the above.
manus
Subhypersonics
#51 - 2017-04-22 12:44:11 UTC  |  Edited by: manus
baltec1 wrote:
Personally I would do away with ore holds entirely. It should be up to the pilot to decide if they want max cargo at the expense of yeild and tank. As it is CCP have literally fitted the ship for you.


Ah yes. This reminds me of Transport Tycoon where you decide which type of cargohold your train, boat or plane has by refitting them. Maybe when they make EVE Online 2 they can do this type of thing.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#52 - 2017-04-22 12:55:11 UTC
Whats funny is this whole thing was worked out years ago, players wanted the ships to fit their roles, so this was one of the changes (ore holds), now you want to change it back, coming from both era's I can tell you its better now.

Seriously, you was a huge ore hold get a porpoise or an orca, use mining drones, you'll do fine.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#53 - 2017-04-22 14:56:27 UTC
grgjegb gergerg wrote:

That is not what the word "literally" means, as they have not in fact fitted the ship.


Try to fit a tank on a hulk, or expand its hold.

They did fit the ships for you, skiff gets tank, hulk gets yield and mack gets hold. Thats why the barges are so poorly balanced after 3 attempts at fixing them under the current plan.
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#54 - 2017-04-23 16:27:47 UTC
manus wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
manus wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
manus wrote:


What do you mean by AFK play? Do you consider mining AFK play?

AFK play means you're doing stuff while not actually at the keyboard. If I'm in a Skiff and watching for hostiles while mining, that's at keyboard, even if I watch Netflix while I mine. AFK play would be firing up a Retriever's mining lasers and then tabbing out to play another game. Mining and ratting can be AFK play, but they don't have to be.


Nice try, but i dont see the difference between firing your lasers and watching netflix or fplaying another game. And obviously the less attention you pay while in space the more risk and the less isk you gonna make.

The difference is that I'm still looking at the screen instead of tabbed out completely. The former is multitasking, the latter is being AFK.


I think you are being redicolous. I mean things have gone too far when people concern themselves with things like this. "Its ok if he watches netflix while eve runs in the background, but if he plays another game he should be burned on a stake."

I mean if thats your best argument against Expanded Ore hold modules, i think its a go.

You misunderstand. I don't consider it AFK play to be playing another game (I myself like to play Hearthstone on my tablet while I mine) but the difference is in whether or not you are looking at the screen and are capable of managing it. I feel pretty confident that I could warp off or otherwise interact with the game while playing Hearthstone, so I do not consider that AFK play. Conversely, if your watching Netflix requires enough of your focus that you wouldn't notice a fleet showing up or your ore hold filling, that is AFK play.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Tessa Sage
Long Pig Luncheon Meat
Sending Thots And Players
#55 - 2017-05-01 09:01:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tessa Sage
manus wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
manus wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
AFK play is not something CCP wants to encourage.


What do you mean by AFK play? Do you consider mining AFK play?

AFK play means you're doing stuff while not actually at the keyboard. If I'm in a Skiff and watching for hostiles while mining, that's at keyboard, even if I watch Netflix while I mine. AFK play would be firing up a Retriever's mining lasers and then tabbing out to play another game. Mining and ratting can be AFK play, but they don't have to be.


I think you are being redicolous. I mean things have gone too far when people concern themselves with things like this. "Its ok if he watches netflix while eve runs in the background, but if he plays another game he should be burned on a stake."

I mean if thats your best argument against Expanded Ore hold modules, i think its a go.


If something in the game requires a significant investment of hours of play, the logical conclusion is parse it out or otherwise "come back to it later". This is where EVE takes the paginated route of, say, NationStates. I would not mind the ore accumulation aspect of the game to happen in the background while I recapture the PvP / exploration functionality. Perhaps system sovereignty or standings (alliance or NPC space ore spawns) will determine how many mining ships can punch their time cards at a signature for redeeming ore in station. Perhaps the inevitable resource collector role of the next gen of Upwells can create a "tether barge while mining" slot to further increase the passive inflow. It is entirely infrastructure level changes.

Much like T2 BPC innovation, there might as well be a percent chance that tasking your mining toon to mine minimized will see X amount of dps needed to tank, I leave it to the devs to tackle.
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