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Give high sec gankers what we've always wanted.... More Risk!
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#21 - 2017-04-21 22:12:07 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

That only lower the cost of ganks. No sane person really want to stand on gates waiting for a gank to happen so they can shoot the gankers.

Hence the other changes needed alongside, but the longer a gank takes to happen (to a point obviously, we don't want ganks taking 30 minutes), the more chance of interactions beyond what we currently get we have.
To quickly summarise, I imagine transports being more like WW2 bombers than the modern freighters we have. Put one on it's own, easy pickings for the fighters (ala gankers). Put 10 of them all in the same spot though, and you have a bit of a different story, 10* gankers will still get them obviously, but 1* ganker can be beaten off at that point.

And before anyone brings up 'but you should need escorts'.... JF's, & Convoy escorts through Null. No-one pretends that Convoy escorts were fun then, so why pretend that HS should need something Null spent a lot of time complaining about as a bad game mechanic.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#22 - 2017-04-21 22:21:39 UTC
Whos gonna put ten haulers together?

Right now, ten nereus can do 600dps and they tank quite well. So do we not already have that?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#23 - 2017-04-21 22:35:06 UTC
A long time ago, I did an experiment with a buddy:

I'd put a container in my cargo hold, and named it: "30-Day Pilot's License Extension."

He scanned me and saw my ship was totally empty.

A signature :o
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#24 - 2017-04-21 23:22:16 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Whos gonna put ten haulers together?

Right now, ten nereus can do 600dps and they tank quite well. So do we not already have that?

Because the ganks are over so fast you don't get realistic chances to apply any of that DPS, and to make the Nerus do that you totally sacrifice hauling capability since cargo extenders don't have stacking penalties also (Which also stops BS having decent holds because of the fear of them using all their lows for extenders and replacing the haulers). Which makes them basically escorts, & we are back to square 1 of escorts being stupid.
So yeah, for several reasons, which are easy enough to change.
Deckel
Island Paradise
#25 - 2017-04-22 06:55:24 UTC
I suggested a Loot Trap a while back. The idea essentially was to have the trap disguise itself as another item, and then when this trap item was looted the warp capability of the ship would temporarily be shut down, along with other random debilitations.

The hitch was that cargo scanners would be able to find the traps. But if you make it so that the cargo scanner cannot find them within the ship, and only within the cargo container or wreck, it would likely still catch lots of people.
grgjegb gergerg
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2017-04-22 08:29:45 UTC
This is silly, but has captured my imagination.

First off: mechanics. I assume they could make something work a certain way. Complaining about current mechanic limitations is inapplicable to an idea that would change the mechanics.

They could definitely put in an item that would lie to cargo scanners. This has nothing to do with API stuff, this is all ingame mechanics. We lie to each other all the time, this is just another way to do it. People lie with far more legit-looking shorted buy orders.

And the fake cargo could report to scanners exactly like actual cargo, reporting items with the same frequency. So it looks the same as regular cargo. Feed it into a tool that estimates the value, get the fake value.

No, this should not be another method of scamming INSIDE STATIONS (reasoning: the station crew checks). Nothing would stop you from telling someone to scan your fake cargo in space, though. And if you can pull that off into a scam, my hat is off to you and the target deserves it for being a dumbass.

But... SHOULD they do it? It would be hilarious, buy a few of the things, rig them into a really juicy-looking cargo, and fly around. If you fail, you make it to your destination having accomplished nothing. If you succeed, you... lose the ship, and the gankers lose their ships, some sec status, and a little dignity (if they have any).

I don't know. It could be fun.



  • I also think it would be interesting if people could carry around armed bombs in nullsec, though. Diminishing returns, of course (no industrials full of bombs, one-shotting capital ships). Like half damage per bomb, up to 9-10k damage for 5 bombs going off, when the first shot hits you into structure or you self-destruct?

    Of course, then a lot of fleet fights could turn into a chain reaction of exploding ships, at certain engagement ranges. That would be pretty funny.
    Donnachadh
    United Allegiance of Undesirables
    #27 - 2017-04-22 14:01:22 UTC
    Frostys Virpio wrote:
    Making the scanner report item X when it sees item Y in the cargo hold is literally changing how the cargo scanner work and that is exactly what I said would be needed for fake cargo to work.

    Nothing has to change about how the scanners works.
    But first it is important for you to understand that you do not have a scanner on your pixel space ship. And your pixel space ship does not actually scan the target ship. The process is all handled between your client and the servers.

    Before I go farther, No I do not know for sure how CCP handles these, what follows is based on 2 simple ideas and more than 3 decades of working with databases and minimizing server loads associated with those data bases.
    1. You need to pass the minimum amount of data possible between server and client to reduce server work load.
    2. never pass data between server and client unless it is required to perform an action on other side of the exchange.
    So based on that here is the most likely way that these interactions are handled.

    1. You activate your scanner which informs your client that you want to scan the cargo hold of the target ship.
    2.Your client sends the ID of the target ship and your request to scan the target ship to the servers.
    3. The servers receive your request and go to the database and retrieves the contents of the target ships cargo hold.
    4. The servers return that information to your client.
    5. Your client formats that data and then displays it to you via the UI.

    To make the OP idea work the ONLY thing that needs to change is the contents of that database and that would be handled when the cargo was loaded onto the ship, and even then nothing has really changed because you change the contents of the database when you load cargo real or fake.

    Well there is one other thing that would have to change to make the OP idea work they may need to add a field to the database that would hold a single bit of data that would tell the servers if the item was a real item or a fake item, while this would add to server load in the grand scheme and considering the small (relative) number of times that 1 bit would have to be moved by the servers I cannot see any game degrading performance issues happening outside of some rare circumstances.
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