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Quafe Convoy Destroyed By Caldari Forces On Caldari-Gallente Border
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Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
#421 - 2017-04-21 20:59:09 UTC
Arrendis wrote:

Just hang out on the Keepstar, I'm sure someone will get you all taken care of. I'll be in my hangar.


If i get by the keepstar, will you come out with me for a drink in a neutral location?

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Arrendis
TK Corp
#422 - 2017-04-21 22:33:28 UTC
There's a fine line between persistence and obsessiveness, you know.

And just where do you think of as 'neutral'?
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
#423 - 2017-04-21 23:08:53 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
There's a fine line between persistence and obsessiveness, you know.

And just where do you think of as 'neutral'?


Well, you can always say no and i´ll move along, but you are just suggesting obstacles, so i´m keeping up.

Neutral i consider a palce where we can just have a nice drink without too much worry about beign exploded. You know, conversation and all that.

There´s so much boosters can do to your perception of reality beign alone in a pod.

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Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
#424 - 2017-04-22 00:24:18 UTC
To be honest, and maybe because I'm naive or was too drunken and convinced that Caldari never lie and rather say nothing when they want to hide the truth, but when I read the Scope news, I didn't question at all that Pilot Alpha is telling the truth. I'm sober and sceptical about my assessment now. But yesterday I was believing him, i.e. Caldari Customs started shooting at debris of the freighters that were already falling apart when they left warp at the customs facility in Kassigainen, and not earlier and not with the intention to destroy the ships, and the convoy was undamaged when it entered warp at the gate.

My immediate thought was: What else could have happened during the brief warp flight except: Self-destruction! Or initiating self-destruction during the warp flight which wasn't completely finished when they left warp but progressed enough for the vessels to start breaking up. If the freighters were diverted to the customs facility for a more thorough examination of their cargo hold somebody on board wanted to avoid this examination at all costs, and their actions might also have included the destruction of flight recorders and a lockdown of escape pod bays in order to silence any witnesses forever.

Well, I imagine I would use seven Obelisk class freighters as well if I had to smuggle something small because a haystack of millions of cubic meters is one of the best places to hide a needle. But I wouldn't self-destroy it if somebody is going to look closer because the size of the haystack was the reason why I put the needle in there in the first place. It's just unlikely that somebody looking closer will find it. However, if every single bale of hay in my huge haystack contains a needle, I might get into trouble and better blow the whole thing up to remove any evidence.

Over a billion of supposedly empty bottles on their way to a Quafe bottling facility in Everyshore, right? From where they might have been distributed all over New Eden...
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
#425 - 2017-04-22 01:01:28 UTC
Elements so far:

- flight recorders were found to have been heavily damaged

- pilots and engineering staff exchanging words regarding hull breaches, missile fire and explosions shortly after arriving in close proximity to the facility.

- holding facility, which it has been revealed was also heavily damaged by debris in the attack.

- Pilot Alpha also confirmed that "after the vessels broke up, it was apparent that the holding facility was at risk of being bombarded by fast moving debris. As such, a weapons free order was issued against the wreckage to minimise damage to the facility and preserve the safety of those on board."

- wreckage indicated the presence of residue from explosives used in Scourge and Inferno torpedoes and heavy missiles

- These missile types were confirmed to have been in use by Caldari Customs on the day of the incident, and on board telemetry from customs vessels confirms the launch of more than six hundred individual missiles over the course of a seven minute engagement.

- no distress calls were issued from any of the Quafe vessels

- "Duty of Care

- regardless of the nature of the destruction of the seven vessels, the State Armed Forces will be held accountable for the loss of the convoy and all those on board.

***

A lot of scenarios can explain the chain of events. Jumping to conclusions so fast is the problem.


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James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#426 - 2017-04-22 03:05:51 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
However, as a person who still finds the situation suspect, I'm very curious what more will come to light over the following weeks of the hearing on the Quafe freighter downing, and find the whole situation phenomenally strange, at a time when evidently multiple conspiracies were unfolding, including at least one unknown intelligence agency attempting to acquire a sample of Kyonoke pursuant to a weaponization study.
Is that code for, give it time and we will figure out a way to blame the Federation? Because it is sounding quite a lot like that.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#427 - 2017-04-22 03:33:17 UTC
No, Syagrius, we'll find a way to blame you. Blaming the Federation is so passé.

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James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#428 - 2017-04-22 04:11:49 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
No, Syagrius, we'll find a way to blame you. Blaming the Federation is so passé.
Well your politics may be off but your wit is admirable.

That made me hoot, an infrequent thing these days.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Arrendis
TK Corp
#429 - 2017-04-22 23:57:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:

- holding facility, which it has been revealed was also heavily damaged by debris in the attack.


Claimed. It's been claimed it was heavily damaged by debris. Where's the independent corroboration? Other than a supercarrier powering into a station like an axe-blade, modern station shielding has never had a problem absorbing 'debris' before, and that was before the even newer entosis shielding systems were put in place.

So before we go blithely accepting a claim of 'this thing that's never happened before totally happened'.. Wait, no, sorry, ships 'breaking up on exiting warp'. My bad, 'these eight things that have never happened before all totally happened at the same place at the same time!', I'd like some independent corroboration. I don't think that's a lot to ask.

Quote:

- no distress calls were issued from any of the Quafe vessels


Again, this is an uncorroborated claim. Capsuleer traffic generally doesn't pick up communiques from baseliner vessels outside of maybe 10-15,000 km, and you know, 'these guys being shot at by the forces of JAMMER CENTRAL don't seem to have gotten a mayday out' doesn't really tell you they didn't try, now does it? Oh, if only all seven flight data recorders hadn't mysteriously been damaged by the exact thing they're built to survive.

Quote:

A lot of scenarios can explain the chain of events. Jumping to conclusions so fast is the problem.


Including the conclusion of 'we can trust the claims being made by the State'.
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
#430 - 2017-04-23 02:04:39 UTC
Oh you sexy angry smart lady.

DED is available for a second look, i was just listing the things that the Scope reported. As i am not saving the States ass without further evidence and investigantio, no need for you to presume that all that is happening is a misdirection from the State. Let´s give time to time, there´s a lot of investigation still going on. That was just the Scope´s report on the subject.

And i like when investigations go all the way, looking at every little piece available leaving no stone unturned.

And i still have some inquiries to do regarding your sassy self.

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James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#431 - 2017-04-30 04:38:14 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Considering the crew were all Caldari, whose to say they haven't already been informed and the matter settled internally? This was a matter of Caldari shooting Caldari. Quafe just supplied the ships that got destroyed.
Actually it's not and I think you know better.

Personally, I think we all know what this was, and in time will know the truth of it.

Until we do, fear not. I will remind you regularly.
Your weekly reminder, as promised.


While I guess I should feel honored that you find it worth your time to do this for me, but consider your reminder duly noted and disregarded.
Mr. Toov.

I will forgo my promised weekly reminder as we have since our last conversation received additional information.

But never fear, I won’t forget, let’s say, in a month if additional clarification isn’t forthcoming.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#432 - 2017-05-02 16:07:25 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
when I gave her chance for a peaceful solution: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=381560

This vile woman doesn't seem to want to live with Caldari in peace.

The fact that you consider suicide and combat a peaceful thing does not help your case....

There were always option to bring apologies and rebuttals for the slanders, she didn't do it either. The thing about combat is that it can help release her hatred against me, Caldari officers in general and whole Caldari State by participating in a fight. There is an ancient Raata saying, that you can understand other soul when you cross the swords.

I am challenging people who start conflict and say something inappropriate against us so they can get the fight they started and come over it, solve it once and forever instead of boiling themselves in senseless hatred.

Many honorable people lately had accepted it and we finished the conflicts by a fight, for example, with Thal Vadam and Aria Jenneth. As you can see, now we are talking with each other politely and respect each other.

Makoto is a different case though.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#433 - 2017-05-25 19:37:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
QUAFE COMPANY RECEIVES SUBSTANTIAL PRE-TRIBUNAL SETTLEMENT FROM STATE ARMED FORCES FOR LOSS OF CONVOY

Lina Ambre wrote:
MAURASI – The Caldari Business Tribunal has confirmed the rescindment of charges against Caldari Customs by the Quafe company this afternoon, after a pre-tribunal settlement was reached between the two organizations that will prevent further legal action against the State Armed Forces.

Speaking to the interstellar press, Justice Kai Etashanko, the administrator for the high-profile case that has gripped both the State and Federation since March confirmed that “The Quafe Company has cancelled all pending litigation against the State Armed Forces after settlement terms were agreed to this morning. Details of the settlement will of course remain confidential between those parties involved, and all House of Records archives have been updated as is appropriate.”

Legal experts at The Scope believe that for such a fast resolution to have been reached, the settlement must involve substantial compensation from the State Armed Forces, with educated estimates believed to put the figure at a value of more than five hundred billion kredits.

In a press conference called shortly after the announcement was made by the CBT, Fleet Admiral Mininela Erinen, Executive Officer of the State Armed Forces, made a statement to clarify the organization's position, saying that “while a settlement has been agreed upon today between the SAF and the Quafe Company, the position of the SAF has not changed on this matter.

“The circumstances surrounding the events that transpired on March 26th – which resulted in the loss of the Quafe Company’s Convoy – remain disputed. Neither party has been able to offer the CBT full and complete timeline of events, or an explanation for what caused the destruction of seven vessels and the loss of 4,691 personnel.

“The SAF has agreed to a settlement with two objectives. The first is to avoid lengthy and costly litigation which will waste man hours that could otherwise be used defending the State at a time of heightened alert. The second objective is to preserve the dignity and memory of those lost in the incident – all of whom, may I remind the press and public, were naturalized citizens of the Caldari State.”

Admiral Erinen closed the press conference by further elaborating on the position of the State Armed Forces. Her words have drawn strong criticism from within Federal borders after she stated that “in conclusion, the SAF accepts no liability or responsibility for the loss of the 4,691 Quafe Company personnel who were killed in the incident.

“We do however acknowledge that at the time of the incident, the vessels and personnel involved were within Caldari borders, under the jurisdiction of the SAF, and were under instruction from Caldari Customs. The agreement of a settlement with the Quafe Company is neither admission nor confirmation of either liability or responsibility for the incident.”

After concluding her statement, Admiral Erinen left the Caldari Business Tribunal’s main conference hall abruptly, without addressing questions from the assembled press.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#434 - 2017-05-25 19:40:54 UTC
The State proves again to its citizens that their lives are worth nothing more than the lost revenue to replace them.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#435 - 2017-05-25 20:20:18 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
The State proves again to its citizens that their lives are worth nothing more than the lost revenue to replace them.


I especially liked this bit:
Fleet Admiral Mininela Erinen wrote:

The first is to avoid lengthy and costly litigation which will waste man hours that could otherwise be used defending the State at a time of heightened alert.


Because the lawyers are really gonna be out on the front line of defense, right? But hey, now they can be laid off, because those man-hours don't need to be budgeted!

No? That's not how it works? Those military lawyers would still be commissioned and working on cases either way? Huh.

And of course...

Same guy! wrote:

the SAF accepts no liability or responsibility for the loss of the 4,691 Quafe Company personnel who were killed in the incident.

“We do however acknowledge that at the time of the incident, the vessels and personnel involved were within Caldari borders, under the jurisdiction of the SAF, and were under instruction from Caldari Customs.


"The completely unarmed freighters were already pulled over by us, and we totally admit that our guys shot them under orders from our officers, but it totally wasn't our fault.."

The real shame of it is... none of the other Empires would've behaved any differently in this situation. Payoffs and lies, payoffs and lies.
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#436 - 2017-05-25 21:09:11 UTC
Any updates on this yet?

I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#437 - 2017-05-25 21:11:53 UTC
Never explain. Never apologize -- and if you are forced to say sorry, make it clear in no uncertain terms you are not sorry.

I would have been disappointed if the SAF had conducted themselves otherwise.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#438 - 2017-05-25 21:42:46 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
The State proves again to its citizens that their lives are worth nothing more than the lost revenue to replace them.


As opposed to the citizens of other organisations, of course.

Note, here, that these citizens should have expected the QUAFE CORPORATION to have fought for their interests - not the CBD and not the Customs service. Yes - still a Caldari corporation (apparently) but there is no expectation of the State as a whole, here - I can only hope the deal reached by the Quafe corp. provides for the families of the lost crew, since no malfeasance on their part has been proven.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#439 - 2017-05-25 21:49:48 UTC
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:
Any updates on this yet?


. . . you mean on the thing that just had an update linked?
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#440 - 2017-05-25 21:50:57 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:
Any updates on this yet?


. . . you mean on the thing that just had an update linked?


To be honest, I had this page open and my NEOCOM running for hours and forgot to refresh before I posted. I suppose I did, then!

I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.