EVE General Discussion

hi

i'm going to suggest that when trying to whine about losing a csm election, you figure out how the voting process works. in fact, ccp explained it fairly simply, and the fact that you didn't understand it and also didn't research it does not speak highly of your abilities were you to make it onto the csm

it was very obvious you had no clue how it worked given your graphs on the first page, but let's educate you and potentially the readers of this thread

single transferable vote, STV, specifically solves these organizational problems with more diffuse representation. unlike first past the post, you do not vote for a single candidate, you vote for a ranked list of candidates.

let us say you are Johnny WantstobeaBot. you just love highsec missioning. there are 8 different highsec candidates competing for your vote. but you don't know how popular any are! who do you vote for! you don't want to waste your vote!

you vote for all of them. Your ballot, 1-8, has each of these bot-aspirant wannabe csmers, in the order you personally prefer them. now, it turns out that 1-6 are utterly unlikable, even for highseccers. is your vote wasted? no! as each of them is eliminated from the pool, your vote transfers according to your list. once unlikable highseccer #1 is eliminated, your vote transfers to unlikable highseccer #2. and through this process, those highsec votes all finally consolidate on one guy that they all like enough to get elected.

now, if there are lots of highsec votes, the excess are not wasted either! imagine a world where there are many Johnny WantstobeaBots. they all love unlikable highseccer #1. there are twice as many Johnny Wantstobeabots as needed to elect unlikable highseccer #1. what happens? why, half those votes them fall down to unlikable highseccer #2, and he too gets elected.

that is why the highly organized Goonswarm Federation, The Only People Who Bother To Look At How This Works, Apparently, all vote aryth #1, yet Innominate, who got fewer #1 votes than many illiterate vanity candidates, easily claimed a seat as well: our excess #1 votes flow down to Innominate.

and this is why we know there are not a lot of Johnny Wantstobeabots flying around: because if they were, even though they all hate each other and don't work together, the magic of STV would do their organizing for them and get them representatives anyway

i hope this has been edifying and that next time you try to run in an election you will take the thirty seconds to look up how the election even works

If you'd listened to any CSM member, past or present, including ones that are diametrically opposed to the existence of Goonswarm Federation, you'd know that the regular meetings are fairly unimportant. I'd find some new pearls to clutch.

Why do people play in HiSec? LowSec? NPC Null?

There are many reasons why. For some, a large alliance, for which Sov-null is tailored to support, is not where they find the most fun and enjoyment in the game. They would rather play in a smaller, more personal setting that has smaller social structures. There are many flavors of this, across the spectrum of security status. The mistake you are making is that you are treating HiSec like one huge monolithic entity, which is a silly assumption, whereas, considering the scope and size of the Imperium, it is not as much of a stretch to say sov-null is largely defined by the Imperium. Sov-Null builds large monolithic blocs, other areas, not so much. It's not high vs null here, it's about the size of the social structures they produce, and only the largest social structures tend to win voices. This is counter to the stated aims of the CSM - to voice for the community, not a subset of a few communities.



I understand how it works. If you really want to dissect the votes even more, funny things happen as you can reconstruct parts of the goon ballot based on how votes trickle down after the top candidate has taken a seat. The visuals and the Gini index both are there simply to show how strongly certain blocs can vote, and how uneven the votes are. I am fully aware of how the system works, but initial vote does act as an indicator of bloc clout. Sov-null clearly can polarize around one chosen candidate easier than other areas.

The stated goal of the CSM is to voice for the community. When the community at large is composed of many smaller groups, and a few very large groups, the current system does a very good job of depriving all the smaller groups of a voice, thus failing to accomplish the original goals - voice the community. I am not faulting the SVT system for being SVT, that's fine, I am saying SVT may not be the best choice here, as clearly the end result of each election is very skewed representation.

it's STV, not SVT

and this is, at its core, the WAHH I DIDNT GET ELECTED THIS MEANS THE VOTING SYSTEM IS BAD

the waterfall of the votes are there for the past two elections. if your point had any validity, you'd be making it by reference to those waterfalls. it doesn't. its a dumb point you came up with because you don't understand the voting system and wanted to blame someone else for losing.

the voting system doesn't skew representation. the representation reflects the electorate. you just don't want to believe that.

So, at least from the initial votes, there's a fairly huge tail of candidates that all get some votes, and a small group which gets a significantly larger share. The spread of the initial votes shows that these smaller communities exist, and that they do have representatives, and that together they represent a good deal of the community, simply that they aren't unified enough to vote as one homogeneous entity, because they aren't - that's not the EvE they play. Does that mean they aren't part of the community?

Certainly when 'pubbies' aren't thought of part of the community, well, that pretty much speaks for itself.

Came to watch some pubbie getting rekt. Was not disappointed.

You are indeed terrible.

Eve's primary redeeming feature is hatred as a gameplay mechanic.

If you're only now coming around to the primary defining feature of our organization, then you must be quite new to the game.

Arguing was never necessary. We were objectively correct from the beginning.

Ratting is for plebians. The patrician krab activity ("krabtivity"?) is rorqual mining. This allows plenty of free time to fulfill the goon prime directive to Never Not Post.