EVE General Discussion

One way or another it will still affect PVE though - ignoring the PVE element when making any changes to T3Cs would be silly.


On another note I'd been pondering interdiction nullification - it shouldn't really change against passive non-targetted interdiction but there should always be a back and forth mechanic in active interdiction - a rough idea but maybe a "remote interdiction augmentor" module that could be fitted to command ships and HICs that when pointed at another HIC made it slower in some way for a nullfied ship to warp out of their bubble giving a chance to burn down and decloak them.

http://imgur.com/uKC1G8I

You have now :p

We occasionally used them (PVP fit) in wormholes with guardians for PVE but not very often - I've used them for my own tinkering as per the link a bit but that was more just because I could. Still I'm sure there are people out there.

Wealth is the differential.
T3Cs cost more to fit, and additionally carry the SP penalty on loss.

If people want to pay for a more expensive ship, and carry the SP loss risk, that is their choice.
Nothing prevents them from flying HACs cheaper, and without SP loss risk, as is.

That (some)T3Cs perform (arguably) better in PvP, depending on fit/skills, in some situations, is offset by the cost ans SP loss.

Pragmatically, its stupid to fly T3Cs in PvP, because you risk an expensive ship and SP loss, vs cheaper opponents with no SP loss risk. I personally wouldnt do that, but people with isk/SP to burn do.

That people choose to do so, is up to them.
Nothing stops them flying a HAC instead.

They did mention something about the ability to refit rigs without destroying them so you'll have even more options. I think that fits the nomadic life style you mention. Hopefully they'll also ad extra cargo space to make it viable.

I just need to point out that the nomadic life is made possible by nullification and covert ops cloaks.

They are actually quite slow to align at 8.5 seconds without any nano's or inertias so those people calling for nerfs to align time to make it easy to catch them obviously don't want Eve to be a hard game, at least for them.

I have seen some caught and had one guy manage to decloak me but I warped just before his point hit home, it is doable, but back to the people who want easy definite kills to put forth their hopelessness, so far I have not yet caught one either, but I make the odd effort every now and again.

My old nullified link loki warped in 4.1 seconds normal fit or just over 3 seconds with nomads (didn't usually bother with that - especially after I accidentally erased a nomad clone jumping to the wrong clone :( ).

There is definitely a place for that in the game - especially how often I encountered gates bubble spammed to 100 odd km when transversing remote parts of null - usually because they had or once had a rorqual out at the end of the dead end pipe or whatever :(

I'm not suggesting you're using the wrong tool for the job, I'm saying that the Proteus is not a dedicated exploration ship.

You've said yourself that whatever you're doing drones are not the optimal tool for it. Without more details I can't really comment on the specifics of the sites you're doing beyond your own vague assessment of them. Comparing the Proteus and the Stratios it seems likely that post-update the Proteus will still be an upgrade in overall performance over the Stratios, but it won't be the same night and day difference, especially in tank, that it is now.

Though you may not have to swap the cloak around as much since it's being moved from Offensive to Defensive subsystems.



The Isthar is probably the only HAC currently not directly overshadowed by the relevant T3C competing fit. However considering that the Ishtar can't warp cloaked and doesn't get any kind of bonuses to probing or data and relic analyzers I think calling it a flat out lesser ship is a bit of a stretch.

The problem here isn't that the Deimos is a bad HAC, the problem is that the Proteus is superior to it in virtually every way.

Even the Drone-fit Proteus can pull more raw DPS than an Ishtar, it just gets a large part of it out of guns which makes it less attractive since drone fits tend to be pure drone boats.



Except as has been repeatedly stated here there is not one fit that is out of line. There is, at best, one fit that doesn't directly overshadow its HAC counterpart here, and that's more because the Ishtar is an OP little monster and gets 100% of its bonuses to drones where as the Proteus' drone fits are more of a hybrid setup.

That doesn't mean we should sacrifice overall balance to preserve your snowflake, which is probably *still* kinda OP given how well a Proteus tanks compared to an Ishtar if its puts it mind to it.



Welcome to the wonderful world of Eve tradeoffs.

I don't think your exploration ship is going to be nerfed into uselessness, at least not objectively. Whether or not you find it as the best option is going to be another thing entirely.



The assertions made here are completely unsupported and ridiculous and you don't even pretend to offer another solution to the current problem of T3C balance.

The only way the claim that nerfing something into a balanced state is bad for the game is if you somehow think that fans of *other* ships that have seen them eclipsed didn't get upset or leave over that state of affairs but that players who see their OP ship nerfed somehow will leave.

Nerfs and buffs are part of balancing a game, every game does them. Claiming that there has been "an endless series of nerfs" is ridiculous and ignores all of the buffs and changes that made those nerfs necessary in the first place.

This whole view is just alarmist nothing.

Lets be real.

Most HACs are crap.

Even faction cruisers outstrip them, except for a few instances where max HAC skills may slightly improve.

Gila/Cynabal/Orthrus are seriously dangerous and capable ships.

HAC status is not a result of T3Cs.
Its a result of the largely useless universal HAC role bonus and HACs not getting a balance pass.

HACs are largely crap, regardless of T3Cs.
I learned that the hard way.

In some cases even fleet issue cruisers surpass HACs in performance.

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T3Cs are the only choice for solo hostile deepspace PvE.

A great deal of T3C pilots live this nomadic lifestyle of refitting in hostile space.
Nerfs to the ship class will potentially make them extinct.
They need the stats and versatility to survive.

Whereas in PvP fleets, those are just players who are prepared to pay for a T3C, and the risk of losing it and SP in engagements.
Kill them, and they are out ~1bil and ~week of SP.

There are 2 HACs per faction. There is nothing preventing them from splitting a bit so they cover both combat and attack.

Sure - but assault ships by definition are more of the attack variety (though CCP tends to blur the lines on most things) - and hence only in terms of specialisation should they be a benchmark for a ship that has a theater wide application and isn't limited to an attack or combat role explicitly.