Intergalactic Summit

So you know, that no information has been concealed? That no attempt was made to do so, even considering the time between event and admission? Now I am trying to keep my suspicions of the States motivations in check. But that is a strong statement, Pieter. Are you that sure?

I will admit that I find myself hoping that you are correct, eager to hear that there was some mitigating factor or credible cause. Because if there wasn’t and this is, what it looks like, then all my supposed biases… well. Let’s see how ‘they’ proceed.

Frankly, Pieter, I don't know what the motivation would be for the State or for the Customs Service in general. I don't think the State or the larger Customs Service would have a motive for this. It's just not the thing higher-level corporate officers would bother with.

But low-level customs officials, feeling their oats and wanting to get their swagger on? Say, the senior officers of a single border system?

Generally speaking, Pieter, any border enforcement service has a tendency toward institutional bias. It's not because they're bad people, either. It's because their job is to be suspicious of 'outsiders'. And years of being professionally wary and suspicious tends to create a self-sustaining cycle where slowly but surely, you see more and more of the bad in the people you're being wary of, and less of the good.

It happens with Law Enforcement, too: the longer they're on the job, the harder it is to avoid seeing people as perpetrators, to not feel like there's an 'us vs them' mentality toward the very population they're supposed to be protecting. And for the record, this tendency is accelerated and made more pronounced, the more strongly militarized the Law Enforcement or Border Guard environment is. So, flying around in battleships the way Caldari Customs does in places? Let's just say that's not helping.

In both cases, it's the kind of thing that gets reinforced over time, as new recruits come in and get told over and over again by the old, embittered, borderline paranoids above them just how bad 'those people' are. And it can easily be exacerbated by general tensions—a rise in crime, a terrorist attack, a sudden closure of the border accompanied by aggressive and belligerent rhetoric.

All this would've taken is a knot of Customs officers at or near the top of the food chain for Kassagainen to decide 'hey, we've got this flight plan here, let's hassle these guys'. And then one Customs ship captain gets twitchy, one guy—because as Morgana there points out, you guys are paranoid about this kind of thing—decides he can't tell the difference between a freighter full of empty bottles and a supercarrier stuffed with jump fuel and munitions* (and let's not be stupid here, we all know ship scanning is pretty much automatic at gates) and suddenly it's an incident.

And let's face it, Pieter, you don't have to "get the entire crews of the entire Customs squadron on board", either. It's a tense situation. It's always going to be. That one twitchy captain? He just has to rationalize the order after the fact to his bridge crew. Most of the crew of that vessel doesn't have any reason at all to even expect to know what's going on, their manning their posts and keeping an eye on the systems they're responsible for. And the crews of the other vessels? Same thing, only more removed, because their captains get tactical reporting weapons' fire, and they're giving the order to fire because something must be up, or why would that first ship start firing? No time to waste, save the facility! And the same goes for the crew of that facility, too.

But they're all involved in the 'yeah, let's pull these guys over and give them a hard time' nonsense, and none of them want to have to answer for that crap, especially when it's costing peoples' lives now. Besides, if one of those guys rats out our one twitchy ship captain, how can any of theo thers trust them? And who's going to sell out their brothers-in-uniform, the guys who go out there and risk their lives for one another every day, over some damned Gallente?

And now you've got a cover-up. No massive conspiracy by the State, no motive needed for the Custom Service itself. Just a bunch of local border cops who got too full of themselves and decided to throw their weight around, and then had to scramble to cover a mistake.

Am I saying that's totally definitely what happened? Of course not. But don't go playing the 'the State has no motive here' card. The State doesn't need a motive. Only the guys who decided to divert that convoy do, and conveniently, they're the only ones alive to tell us how they totally didn't do anything wrong.


* - And hey, just in case someone here can't tell the difference: 940,000,000kg at 136m/s (with 3 overdrives) vs 1,600,000,000kg at 211m/s. For the record, that's four times the impact energy of the freighter without the munitions. Sure, you say, but there were seven freighters! Doesn't matter. The Nyx's flattened cross-section means it's the difference between a blade, and being hit with seven punches. Each of the punches has 1/4 the impact energy of the blade, but the blade's imparting that energy into a much more focused strike zone. I can punch you in the same spot seven times, I'm not going to have nearly the same chances of shattering bones and ripping through vital organs as that blade. It's all about the energy in a single strike, and how tightly-focused the impact of that energy is.

First, let's keep in mind that Kim is an example only of her own insecurities and overcompensation, and maybe a FIO infiltration and propaganda operation.

Next: you are vastly oversimplifying this by labeling them 'Provists'. They're human beings who are, every day, called upon to be both suspicious of outsiders, and authoritarian. That's their job, to be the guys 'in charge' of situations. If a situation gets out of their control, that's bad. That's what causes and feeds the authoritarian complex. Most LEOs are aware of this, and they try to work to counter its influence, but it's not an easy thing to do, especially when it's reinforced by being in command of a ship's crew.

So to lump them all in as Provists, instead of fallible human beings doing a difficult and usually thankless job isn't just incredibly dismissive and facile, it's also pretty insulting, both toward them, and toward the intelligence of everyone reading this.

I know this is hard for you to believe, Makoto, but it is possible to approve of the job groups like the Customs Service do and still demand transparency and accountability, even to question the credibility of claims like all seven flight recorders being damaged beyond recovery in the initial destruction of the ships, rather than intentionally disabled afterwards.

In fact, anyone who does value the dedication and service of various law enforcement organizations should be demanding that kind of transparency. If you support the work of the Customs Service in general, how the hel can you rationalize not wanting to make sure that malignant actos are rooted out, to ensure the public trust is properly served?

Then why the dismissive tone? Pieter said he couldn't imagine a motive. I provided a speculative, but plausible scenario that provides a motive. Why meet that with what amounts to 'let's indulge this nonsense to say that if that were feasible, the perpetrators would be too stupid to avoid drowning in the shower'? And why bring Kim into it at all?

Exactly the kind of thinking that a regular non-capsuleer non-implanted person on a stressful job will have on this kind of situation.

I take pride on our educational system and on the quality of our officers, but i don´t think that everyone knows the exact stats of ships, stations and do on the fly calculations like the one you´re making on the confort of wherever you are.

(By the way, where is this location, so we can grab a drink the two of us later? )

- Order is given by Caldari prohibiting Federation ships from crossing borders.
- Federation vessels try to cross border anyway (Mistake nº1)
- Federation vessels are escorted away from the gate for inspection
- ???? (Several Mistakes were made)
- Federation vessels blow up under Caldari responsability
- Investigation ongoing with DED oversight

Stop holding so many grudges against the Caldari, things are being investigated and with proper transparency and supervision from the cluster.

It´s a strange situation? Yes.

But we just got out of a universal threat situation sorrounded by questions and shadow conspiracies involving intelligence agencies building bio-weapon, miraculous readily available antidotes, manipulation of key personel, killing of scientists, clonejacking of a VIP from one of the most respected institutions on the cluster, and you all start pointing fingers on the faction that is actually investigating the matters and suffered the heaviest casualties so far?

A)Delve. Feel free to bop on down to 1dq. Fly something shiny to impress the locals.

B)Yes, exactly the kind of thinking that a combat vessel's captain should know, automatically: "a Nyx is a giant blade with a prop mod, an Obelisk is a beach-ball."

Seriously, at some point in your contortions, you might look around and see how badly you're insulting your own military academies. Yes, this is precisely the kind of information it is their job to know: threat assessment, characteristics and capabilities of different hulls, how to tell the difference between a 1-kilometer freighter and a 3-kilometer supercarrier...

Yeah. I expect a professional, career officer who's managed to rise to the rank of ship's captain in command of a ship firing cruise missiles and/or torpedoes to know these things. Maybe not the exact numbers, mind you, but yes, they should know the general range of those numbers. Exactly numbers were provided here because if I hadn't, you'd have falled back on the 'but there were seven of them nonsense that I pre-emptively took away from you.

I expect them to know that. Why don't you? Why do you expect the State to be putting people in command of battleships without making sure they're intelligent, competent, and knowledgeable? If I were one of the ship captains involved in this, guilty or innocent, I swear, other than Pieter, I'd be begging all of you to stop helping. Because you're not. Ever hear the expression 'with friends like these...'?

I've been considering carefully how to respond to Post #409. There's a lot that could be said, but it's a honeypot for further diversion and nonsense. Ironically, I suspect that's exactly what the intention was in provoking it. And so...

Look at what you did, Makoto. You woke That Which Must Destroy The Federation. I hope you're proud of yourself.

And no-one has proven that Vulture and Rook weren't working for Caldari Intelligence. Is it unlikely? Sure. But it hasn't been ruled out. And Akira Kasaras was convinced to assist against the initial extremist group, yes—but we have no indications of how she was convinced, whether she was originally a member, as were others in her family, or if she supported those aims and was simply acting under duress when working against them.

As for the Federation and Republic scientists... if data on something exists in the cluster, there will be those willing to pay to get it, however classified that data might be. Your supposition indicates a belief that Vulture and Rook were not Caldari agents, and strongly implies that they were working with Federal and/or Republic intelligence and R&D. But here's the thing: if the pharmacorps in question already had this cure... they wouldn't have needed the outbreak. There would have been no reason to redirect Akira Kasaras, no reason to breach the Pit. I certainly won't say it's impossible that a group with a reputation for illegal activity, like Eifyr, couldn't have made a bio-weapon, but if they had... is it reasonable to imagine the initial test would be on a Federal facility? That is, after all, where Vulture and Rook targeted their activities.

Let's face it, they'd have dropped this on Amarr Prime.



Yes, their jobs do require more tension and shooting. That's why they're trained in threat assesment, and things like, you know, knowing that freighters bounce off the Jita 4-4 undock all the damned time when they don't accelerate into warp quickly enough. Without, you know, decimating the station. Again: you're not helping, either their case, or yours.



Just hang out on the Keepstar, I'm sure someone will get you all taken care of. I'll be in my hangar.

The fact that you consider suicide and combat a peaceful thing does not help your case....