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Give high sec gankers what we've always wanted.... More Risk!
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GoodGreyer Ayderan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2017-04-20 04:07:21 UTC

Being a High Sec ganker these days is SOOOOOO boring. It's just too damn easy. Too much isk, for too little risk, is what I like to say about our profession.

Honestly I'm just tired of making money hand over fist, taking the hard earned (or bought) isk of other players, with barely an inkling of risk or uncertainty.

It's time CCP, for you to make us step up our game!

One way to do this, is via THIS proposal. And that is....

Fake Cargo!

That's right. Fake... Cargo....

The way this would work, is that a hauler or anyone for that matter could create what would appear to be on one's cargo scanners the signature of 500 Plex (or any valuable cargo), to bait us in to ganking them in High Sec. High Sec ganking becomes more of a gamble. A game of Russian Roulette (or given Trump's bedding with Putin - American Roulette - though it's played a little differently where all but one chamber has a bullet Shocked).

So please CCP, bring some excitement back to High-Sec ganking!



Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2017-04-20 04:39:38 UTC
I plus 1 this because of how ******* hilarious this is.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#3 - 2017-04-20 04:40:27 UTC
Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here.

You want something that ensures your ship will be ganked, and the joke is that they lost a little ISK doing it?

Maybe if it caused a huge smartbomb effect when your ship died it might make moving cargo around in low and null a bit more entertaining, where what's eating you is a hotdrop of something more juicy than some throw away catalysts.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#4 - 2017-04-20 06:03:39 UTC
Maybe I'm being too suspicious, but I find it funny that a thread is supposedly from a ganker asking for more risk for gankers, yet the OP has no killboard to validate that position.

It doesn't seem like the sort of suggestion that would come from a ganker, primarily because it wouldn't achieve what is being asked for.

It seems much more like a misguided suggestion from a hauler that would backfire spectacularly.
mkint
#5 - 2017-04-20 12:01:14 UTC
I know this is a joke suggestion, but I can't help thinking of how it would play out. Obviously, it would see almost no use. And then since the drop rate is 50%, recovering one would be effectively never. The only way to get it much use would be for groups to organize, at which point it might become more predictable. It wouldn't cause any kind of social movement because memes don't really spread very well in EVE. Even if it ended up having wide use, it would get used on obvious ships because nobody wants to risk an expensive ship. Cheap industrials with no fitting. Shuttles on autopilot. Rookie ships. Maybe they get ignored, maybe they get hit more frequently. But since they'd never get used, it really wouldn't have an effect on the game. Unless of course this was made as a change to cargo scanners themselves to occasionally report false positives, which might make things more interesting.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#6 - 2017-04-20 12:51:06 UTC
My first thought was you could lead with an expensive fake cargo ship and follow behind with your real cargo. Jump the fake loots into Niarja and as it burns and the gankers are all getting their pods back to reship, you fat loot freighter moonwalks through the system.

My second thought is jump 7 iterons full of big loots into Niarja. Only one is real. The gankers would have to pick and hope luck is on their side. Stagger the iterons at short intervals to add interest. Do this w/ DST to really force the gankers to pick and choose.

Gankers pull CONCORD off the gate, why not be able to pull gankers to a bait ship and then get your stuffs through. It adds no actual risk to the ganking profession but it does add some interesting counter play options for haulers.


+1 for funny
+1 for interesting counter play options
oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#7 - 2017-04-20 13:03:47 UTC
The problem is that the Cargo Scanner returns actual items which can be copy / paste into out of game applications that will estimate value based upon markets prices.

That's the problem.

The Cargo scanner lists actual items, than can be accurately verified.


What you should be asking for is ways to consistently affect what cargo scanners return so if a gank crew scans you once, or scans you 100 times, they still get the general mis-leading answer.

Of course, if that will ever come to past is a totally different discussion.

Because we all know the only ones who need to face risk are Hi Sec carebears.

Gankers only need to face the consequences.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#8 - 2017-04-20 13:04:09 UTC
Yeah the op is one of those gankers that hates gankers and is often unsure of how ganking actually works. Yeah, one of THOSE gankers.

Not opposed to the concept. But how will it actually work?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2017-04-20 18:56:54 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Yeah the op is one of those gankers that hates gankers and is often unsure of how ganking actually works. Yeah, one of THOSE gankers.

Not opposed to the concept. But how will it actually work?


It literally can't unless we change how cargo scanner work. You would need a way to make the cargo scanner lie about what is in the hold. While it is not technically impossible to do so, CCP refused to have the API lie about a bunch of stuff when it was brought up that it effectively killed the utility of siphons.
radkid10
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2017-04-20 19:08:20 UTC
here's an idea cargo scanner jammers

I'm not a suicide ganker

I personally would not go through the trouble doing a Scan I would just shoot the ship and pray I get something good after all destroyers are cheap
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#11 - 2017-04-20 19:43:02 UTC
GoodGreyer Ayderan wrote:
That's right. Fake... Cargo....



It has been quite a while, but if you really wanted to troll the gankers, here's how you do it.
You get about 30-40 people to use relatively new alts, and contract each other empty boxes such that you cannot scan down more than 1 layer. Put all these boxes in t1 industrial ships and set a huge autopilot loop up and down the major routes, and even to some side routes. 150 long auto pilot loops, etc. These decoys should cost no more than like 1m isk or so. When the gankers scan them, they will want to take a risk (what's in that contract box!?), but they will start getting frustrated when it's either nothing or a joke item every time.

The key to this trick is saturation and frequency. HiSec bears are notorious for not being herded easily, but if you did get enough people to willingly toss enough decoys into the waters to suitably give the gankers a headache, you may succeed without needing a new mechanic - the mechanics are there, you don't need anything new, but you do need the organization. Players should be responsible for their own emergent gameplay, not heavy hands of the developers.

It would take a while, it would take lots of people, but if enough tornado/vexor ganks stopped paying, and the field became too unprofitable due to how may bad targets there were, you might make an impact.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#12 - 2017-04-20 23:25:59 UTC
Leave HS. Problem solved.
Sitting Bull Lakota
Poppins and Company
#13 - 2017-04-21 01:48:10 UTC
How much risk could be added and where could it possibly go to disincentivize a freighter ganker like Ramstein, New Eden Revenue Service, or the illustrious Code. from a 5-20b payout per gank?

We already have plastic wrap and unscannable holds on certain ships and that seems to increase your odds of getting nailed.
Maybe if the fake item would create a false list of items foe the scanner to read.
But that would only work if the item list it generated persisted between systems and multiple scans.
And it would have to be an item list that would feasibly fit in the ship's hold.

Not that any of that would matter, because eventually, the gankers would get wise to the item lists the algorythms would typically create, and then the cargo-faker would be the same "kill me now" bumpersticker that plastic wrap is.

The real solution for the gankees is to stop filling wet, cardboard boxes with expensive payloads and then autopiloting between hubs while they alt-tab and play Rocket League.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#14 - 2017-04-21 02:26:48 UTC
I wish they would add a fake plex, undock out of Jita and a trigger happy ganker wastes some ISK+ egg on the face.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2017-04-21 03:28:13 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
I wish they would add a fake plex, undock out of Jita and a trigger happy ganker wastes some ISK+ egg on the face.


You're ok with the same fake PLEX being used to scam people right?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#16 - 2017-04-21 06:38:39 UTC
Longer gank timer and the risk adds itself naturally.
Yes some other changes are needed alongside a longer gank timer, but the solution is actually that, give gankers longer to gank, and they will gank like they do now, with the bare minimum needed plus a small margin. And with longer timers people have more time to intervene.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2017-04-21 13:56:15 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Longer gank timer and the risk adds itself naturally.
Yes some other changes are needed alongside a longer gank timer, but the solution is actually that, give gankers longer to gank, and they will gank like they do now, with the bare minimum needed plus a small margin. And with longer timers people have more time to intervene.


That only lower the cost of ganks. No sane person really want to stand on gates waiting for a gank to happen so they can shoot the gankers.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#18 - 2017-04-21 14:17:19 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Maybe I'm being too suspicious, but I find it fun

Ah another of the iditoic things we do in EvE, using a kill board to determine the value of a contribution to these forums.
Someone posts and off you run to a kill board near you where you find nothing. Which leasd you to the assumption that the OP is most likely not a real ganker. So let's look at this with a more open and realistic point of view.
Cargo scanning alts
Bumping alts
Scouting alts
ORCA pilot
Manufacturing alt
Market trading alt
I could go on but I will stop there. It is entirely possible, no it is likely that any or all of these alts would have no entries on their kill boards and yet they could all be controlled by a person with hundreds if not a thousand or more gank kills and the kill boards would not give you any clue to that fact.

oiukhp Muvila wrote:
The problem is that the Cargo Scanner returns actual items which can be copy / paste into out of game applications that will estimate value based upon markets prices.

Do you really think that your on screen pixel space ship actually has a scanner that actually scans another players pixel space ship also displayed on your screen and from the scan of those pixels on your screen determines what the ship is carrying? I hope so because I have some tropical water front property with a real snow covered ski slope in the back yard I would like to sell.
Getting real here when you cargo scan a ship your client sends a request to the servers and the servers return to your client the contents of the ships cargo hold which in turn your client displays as the results of a scan that never actually happened. In the case of this fake cargo the servers would know about the fake cargo and what it was supposed to contain so when the servers handled the request for the contents of a ship the servers would simply return the list of fake items to your client that would then obediently display those fake items as the results of your cargo scan.

Frostys Virpio wrote:
It literally can't unless we change how cargo scanner work. You would need a way to make the cargo scanner lie about what is in the hold. While it is not technically impossible to do so, CCP refused to have the API lie about a bunch of stuff when it was brought up that it effectively killed the utility of siphons.

See above. To recap, scan results are nothing more than a server response to a request for information from a client. Since the servers know everything about every ship in their area of responsibility the servers would simply return the list of fake items which would then be displayed by your client as the results of a scan.
Alderson Point
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2017-04-21 14:34:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Alderson Point
Clearly a false flag post, it wouldn't do much overall though.

However If you could purchase a one time use, "concord upgrade (fat bribe) certificate" that you could activate prior to undock, and carry in your hold (runs out/expires when completing docking), that made concord come near instantly to protect you, then that would be far more interesting, especially if the expired item could still be carried.

Another use for those billions of concord LP floating around.

Code. Would of course approve, they have been issuing permits for years. How could they possibly object? Twisted a bit of competition is a good thing? Right?Roll

Edit:- back soon just setting up all my alts to do a multi jump autopilot round trip through every system in Hs at least once...... Blink

Aversion therapy is the best therapy.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2017-04-21 15:00:46 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:

See above. To recap, scan results are nothing more than a server response to a request for information from a client. Since the servers know everything about every ship in their area of responsibility the servers would simply return the list of fake items which would then be displayed by your client as the results of a scan.


Making the scanner report item X when it sees item Y in the cargo hold is literally changing how the cargo scanner work and that is exactly what I said would be needed for fake cargo to work.
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