Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Proof that Dracvald is really just a troll, IMO. He'll come out from his echo chamber to take the occassional potshot. I like replying to him to see when he'll do so.

1) Go do PVE
2) Put cloak-probes out
3) See a detection
4) Tell the PVE-fleet to get safe

Does not matter how you limit it. It would become a mandatory ship to have in your fleet when you are doing PVE. The probes would be put around your fleet to give advanced warning for a cloaky being near.

How? A sphere of 100km radius is a huge amount of space, more than 125,663 km3. I suppose you could spend a few hours trying to find the guy in that situation is going to take considerable work.

So it becomes an early warning system. Who will be better able to leverage such a system? A 50-100 man corp or a 1,000 man corp? My guess is the latter. With the latter you'll be far more likely to have a guy who can park an alt in a cov ops and be the early warning system. The small group, the groups you prefer, will not have as many such options.

And what about fleet combat. Now everyone will want one of these guys on grid with his probes out. Hey everyone bombers in the area, spread out and take the appropriate counter measures.

This is not a good idea.

Don't worry, I'm sure Dracvlad will like it.

1000 man corps don't see cloaked ships as a problem. There are no cynos in w-space so a cloaker would do at best a few appearances before dying miserably to a massive counter attack. Bombers would do there thing as well, just as before. As you said "I suppose you could spend a few hours trying to find the guy in that situation is going to take considerable work.".

I get it. According to you the moment of engagement aspect of cloaking is balancing itself out with the lower dps and tank of cloakers. I disagree as there lowered stats isn't a valid enough argument to justify total stealth capability. Total and absolute stealth is in my opinion imbalanced, witch is what we are seeing when people complain. I get that there always will be a group like you who won't agree and that is fine. You don't have too, like all subjects there will always be people of differed opinions.

I just hope CCP gives both sides of the argument a look and balances to a more neutral compromise. Enough have complained about this subject to just sweep it under the carpet. This particular idea have probably been the most neutral of the ones I have seen and the most simple to implement.

Local is total absolute intel. A ship probing isn't.

Go back and read the original suggestion. This particular change would only be applied to w-space where no local exists.

Still means 100% safety in null for the big boys.

And another false premise.

You are assuming there is only one counter to cloaking: local.

The other counter is to work in groups....which is what most wormholers seem to do based on the discussion in this thread. If you are on comms in the standing fleet, and even working as a group, the threat of a cloaked ship is diminished.

Yes, that cloaked ship might be the advanced scout of a larger group. But even wormholers do not have a problem with that. Why? For them it is content. Wormholers are, to me, an interesting bunch. They are heavy into both PvE and PvP. They have to import a large chunk of the stuff they use, at least initially, and they build up considerable infrastructure when they find a hole to call home (good lord that sounds wrong). So for these guys it would seem that having skill points in both combat and industry would be very beneficial to them.

Notice that in the discussion of cloaks and AFK cloaking there is often the phrase: "some players just want to rat (or mine, or whatever) in peace".

That does not apply to wormholers. They know that they cannot have that where they live. Same goes for most NS sov holders (excluding renters). This is a game about competition and conflict as well as cooperation. Wormholers, above all, else seem to get this. It is a game where adaptability is extremely important, and the issue with the anti-AFK crowd is that they would rather have CCP do something vs. adapt.

Now, if nobody can adapt that is bad and CCP needs to intervene. But wormholers demonstrate that players can adapt to a no local environment and deal with cloaked ships. However, I do not advocate simply removing local because many players would likely stop playing than adapt, so my preferred solution has been remove local from NS (maybe LS) and put in structures so that players can build up an intel network.