EVE General Discussion

The bottom line is :

"THE" PVE/Mining player don't WANT challanges in his game....

Not against gankers,nor against npc.....

All he wants is a chilled play after work......
There are exceptions from this but they are few.....

On the other hand there are people that simply can't UNDERSTAND how someone want to play this game TOTALLY wrong.....

They are called PVP players and in THEIR world EVERYONE is a target.....
Those two factions just don't fit together,their view to the game is like two sides of a medal....

Now.....

How do we solve this problem?

Simple....

Give PVE the highsec and ban all PVP escept during a (only from both sides accepted) war.....

Give PVP low and 0.0 and let them chop themselves there without disturbing PVE.....

Yes my dear PVP,you will have LESS prey that is not able to fight back.....no more easy kills,no more salt and tears....

But isn't THAT what you want (what you always say why you PVP) ?

Challenge?

So...LOGICAL no PVP that lives that "Challenge" could be against such a solution or he must be just a liar that is ,despite what he specifies,just out for easy kills and lollable killmails....

Eve is firstly an economic simulator and only secondly a sandbox. Everyone strives to be efficient and efficiency demands very low risk factors.

The first rule of this game is "Dont fly what you can't afford to lose". We all repeat it to each and every newbro we come accross and then starts threads complaining about risk adversity and complement it with a "trust no one" cherry on top of the cake.

Players are just trying to be efficient, bitter vets or confused nubs they all prioritise adding to their stash of plex instead of fitting expensive ships to wreck in pvp.

No one suiccides gank retrievers in officer mod fit tournement ships for the lulz, they use instead cheap catalysts.

Many only see what they want to see and some are blinded by their own self interests.

You only have to look at Eve Offline PCU graphs with a hint of a open mind to see this game has been stagnating since 2009, and a gradual decline since 2014.

Alpha Clones reset that a bit, but even now, the decline is at even a greater slope that will negate that short bump by the fall of this year.

If that curve continues to play out this game will be at 2005 PCU levels by 2020.

One third the PCU of the last few years.


And that isn't "crying that Eve is dying".

That is simply extending the existing trends in the actual PCU history.


Of course, What CCP does between now and then will have influence, hence the suggestions about serious change instead of flying blind on the current course...

This does not change the fact that most mission runners avoid burner missions. This is the point of what I'm saying, CCP keeps making "fewer but smarter enemies" content when that is really a waste of DEV time.




Looking in the wrong direction. The thing for CCP to do is make Scrams turn off NPC Microwarpdrives (they don't currently). I keep a scam on my Ratting machariel just in case of Blops drop (Blops like to fit MJDs, the scram is my way of saying "yep, it was a mistake for you to disturb my ratting").

No one has said that CCP can't improve npcs, I'm saying that the goal of making PVE look more like PVP is a bad idea. people who want to directly PVP will go do that, I don't kill rats for PVP fun.

This does not, btw, mean that I think PVE players should be immune from pvp from other players, I do not and I prepare for pvp in all my pve endeavors (because in EVE, EVERYONE can do what they want, and some people foolishly want to PVP my while i'm killing rats).



You mean the exact same thing they did with Revenant Blue Prints in Low sec incursions. Man , there sure are a lot of Revenants flying around these days....

Which again is the point. I'm not making guesses. I'm viewing the PVE HISTORY of EVE Online.

The idea that these hidden stations spewing valuable Blueprints is going to work can already be debunked, because you can see that getting Revenant Blue prints from low sec incursions (that allow CAPITALS to use gates) barely ever happens.

The incursion system for getting revenant blue prints is EASIER and more GENERALLY ACCESSIBLE than what CCP is going to do with the Blood Raider BPCs in hidden stations, and yet very few people can be arsed to screw with it. This new PVE scheme CCP is coming up with will be hot for 1 or two months, and might generate an interesting fleet fight or 2 between real player groups, but eventually, just like with low sec incursions and Revenant BPCs, people are going to figure out that it's not worth risking fleet assets over.

No good FC is going to risk a big fleet to a PL/Goons/NC/whoever hot drop to get some blue prints to ships that are basically novelty items. Again, reference the Revenant (which on paper is the BEST Super Carrier and should be flying off the shelves).

Or .. i don't know? warp off your pod?? Unless there are bubbles, connection problemens(A ticket can be send in this case) or smartbombing ships, there is absolutely no reason to loose a pod. Just start smahing "warp to" like a Madman before your ship pops, and you will get away.

Yes, there are some posters on these forums who care about the over-all game more than their own advantages within it.
I realize that comes as a shock, probably due to the crowd you are currently flying with.

But, as I said before, you only have to look at the PCU graphs with some basic ability at forecasting to see the current trends in this game.

Sometimes a little fun does need to be reduced for some to make the game far more fun for everyone else.

I agree.

I recently mentioned something like that, where the depth of some play styles in this game have dramatically deepened;
But the range of play styles in this game has also dramatically narrowed compared to 10-12 years ago.

I think that alone has contributed to many leaving the game.

I really don't think it is. I also expect that the rate of burner rejection has gone down over time, and I expect that individual pilots graduate to being able to run them, some individual pilots aspire to run them, and some individual pilots like that there is frigate specific content that pays well, and I also don't really think it was that much of CCPs dev time.

Ultimately there is no rule book for what _will_ work, but it is most certainly CCPs job to experiment and find out what entertains us.



I do not expect it to be as exciting as pvp. I expect it to help make the elementary actions of pvp more familiar to non pvp pilots.



(a) its 20 - 40 player content that drops isk, a few modules and *possibly* the mothership bp, and the indivdiual player has a very low expectation of getting the BP - ie I bet they are always sold and split up or made alliance property.

I looked today, and there appeared to be nil lowsec incursions today. So if the BP drops 20% of the time ( I don't know what it is), and there is one mothership every 3 days, that means over the year there is a likelyhood of what - 25 bpcs, and then there is the issue of actually building one, because you aren't going to press go in jita.

(b) running the content to get the mothership spawned is visible as map stats visible globally.

(c) the progress to the mothership is visible.

(d) The same content (1 drop or whatever excepted) is available in HIGHSEC and pays really well, and allows people to run the content more often, and with more extreme fits.

(e) incursions are permanent content. there is no rush for individuals to do.


None of the above are likely to be true of the blood raider content, and we do not know what scale decisions CCP will settle on. If its something that a sovereign standing defense fleet can reship to and deal with in half an hour when it pops locally, then I would imagine they would be run.

And they fail sometimes. Look at Drifters.



This is a terrible expectation. And it's built on even worse thinking, the general false and even dangerous idea that if PVE "teaches PVP" then PVE players will be less likely to victims in PVE situations (and perhaps they might even choose to PVP more).

The truth is that a person being a victim or not of pvp has to do with personal traits they bring to the game. You can't teach wisdom or prudence, these are things you have a capability for, or you don't.



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That's a bunch of rationalizing. I say we book mark this post of your and revisit the issue 6 months after the feature is introduced. When that happens I will enjoy demonstrating to you why the past matters (ie why the Revenant tells the story that is about to be repeated with the Blood Caps) and why your thought process led you to believe things that aren't so.

The only thing I've suggested is that the narrowing to game-play options have contributed to this, significantly in my opinion.

I've never suggested it was the only reason, mainly because stating that only one specific thing causes variances in a complex system would be contradictory in itself.