These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Expanding navy ships
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Namaan
Cursoribus
#1 - 2017-04-19 04:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Namaan
Navy Destroyers... With the long standing hole in the navy line being Destroyers I think this is a good time to consider finally bringing them into the game... Once upon a time the argument against them was "no one would use them" or something like that, but with the birth of the Alpha Clone there is a now a market for these "Tech 1.5" ships.

The give us more things to build, more ships for them to buy and use, and (more importantly) more things to be blown up.

I would like to see bonuses that help Destroyers in their role to protect larger class ships from Frigates, or even some perks to anti bomb duty.


There also could be a small argument for faction haulers, but maybe not yet.
Alderson Point
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2017-04-19 13:07:03 UTC
Namaan wrote:
Navy Destroyers... With the long standing hole in the navy line being Destroyers I think this is a good time to consider finally bringing them into the game... Once upon a time the argument against them was "no one would use them" or something like that, but with the birth of the Alpha Clone there is a now a market for these "Tech 1.5" ships.

The give us more things to build, more ships for them to buy and use, and (more importantly) more things to be blown up.

I would like to see bonuses that help Destroyers in their role to protect larger class ships from Frigates, or even some perks to anti bomb duty.


There also could be a small argument for faction haulers, but maybe not yet.



Could be useful, especially if there is a need at some time to improve the range and seperation of the faction warfare loyalty point store.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#3 - 2017-04-19 14:14:35 UTC
Namaan wrote:
Navy Destroyers... With the long standing hole in the navy line being Destroyers I think this is a good time to consider finally bringing them into the game... Once upon a time the argument against them was "no one would use them" or something like that, but with the birth of the Alpha Clone there is a now a market for these "Tech 1.5" ships.

The give us more things to build, more ships for them to buy and use, and (more importantly) more things to be blown up.

I would like to see bonuses that help Destroyers in their role to protect larger class ships from Frigates, or even some perks to anti bomb duty.


There also could be a small argument for faction haulers, but maybe not yet.



Being that alpha clones are starter clones with the idea being that at some point down the line they will pay a subscription, I think the ideal skill point for the navy destroys should be just out of reach of the alpha clone. THAT would make good marketing sense.

Think of it, fleets of Navy Dessy just totaling chewing through fleets of alphas like nobodies business. What perfect incentive for the alpha to upgrade their account. It's interesting that no one has come out with an idea for a ship specifically designed to hunt and kill alpha characters. That would be pretty sweet. I know I'd go for it!!
Namaan
Cursoribus
#4 - 2017-04-19 14:52:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Namaan
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Namaan wrote:
Navy Destroyers... With the long standing hole in the navy line being Destroyers I think this is a good time to consider finally bringing them into the game... Once upon a time the argument against them was "no one would use them" or something like that, but with the birth of the Alpha Clone there is a now a market for these "Tech 1.5" ships.

The give us more things to build, more ships for them to buy and use, and (more importantly) more things to be blown up.

I would like to see bonuses that help Destroyers in their role to protect larger class ships from Frigates, or even some perks to anti bomb duty.


There also could be a small argument for faction haulers, but maybe not yet.



Being that alpha clones are starter clones with the idea being that at some point down the line they will pay a subscription, I think the ideal skill point for the navy destroys should be just out of reach of the alpha clone. THAT would make good marketing sense.

Think of it, fleets of Navy Dessy just totaling chewing through fleets of alphas like nobodies business. What perfect incentive for the alpha to upgrade their account. It's interesting that no one has come out with an idea for a ship specifically designed to hunt and kill alpha characters. That would be pretty sweet. I know I'd go for it!!


Seeing as Alphas can currently fly their respective navy ships, why would a destroyer be out of their skill set? Also if you put them out of Alpha reach then you just run back into the old issue of few people would actually want them when Omegas get the T2 Frigates/Destroyers.
perseus skye
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2017-04-19 15:05:46 UTC
Although I do love anything "navy issue" I'm a bigger fan of Attack Frigates and would prefer to see those properly useful before releasing any more new smaller ships

Namaan
Cursoribus
#6 - 2017-04-19 15:11:16 UTC
perseus skye wrote:
Although I do love anything "navy issue" I'm a bigger fan of Attack Frigates and would prefer to see those properly useful before releasing any more new smaller ships



I totally agree those guys need some love, but at the same time new Navy Destroyers would just be current models (Corax/Talwar/Dragoon/Algos) with the navy paint job, and slightly different stats... Far less work than an actual new ship, so I can't see them taking much time out of other projects such as Frigate rebalance.
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2017-04-19 15:17:50 UTC
perseus skye wrote:
Although I do love anything "navy issue" I'm a bigger fan of Assault Frigates and would prefer to see those properly useful before releasing any more new smaller ships



FTFY

AFs would be fun to fly again, yes. Battleships would be more fun to fly again! They need to not be so bloody slow in warp!
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2017-04-19 16:20:45 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Namaan wrote:
Navy Destroyers... With the long standing hole in the navy line being Destroyers I think this is a good time to consider finally bringing them into the game... Once upon a time the argument against them was "no one would use them" or something like that, but with the birth of the Alpha Clone there is a now a market for these "Tech 1.5" ships.

The give us more things to build, more ships for them to buy and use, and (more importantly) more things to be blown up.

I would like to see bonuses that help Destroyers in their role to protect larger class ships from Frigates, or even some perks to anti bomb duty.


There also could be a small argument for faction haulers, but maybe not yet.



Being that alpha clones are starter clones with the idea being that at some point down the line they will pay a subscription, I think the ideal skill point for the navy destroys should be just out of reach of the alpha clone. THAT would make good marketing sense.

Think of it, fleets of Navy Dessy just totaling chewing through fleets of alphas like nobodies business. What perfect incentive for the alpha to upgrade their account. It's interesting that no one has come out with an idea for a ship specifically designed to hunt and kill alpha characters. That would be pretty sweet. I know I'd go for it!!


What's the point of making a ship designed to hunt alpha when you can already hunt alphas?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2017-04-19 16:22:13 UTC
Namaan wrote:
perseus skye wrote:
Although I do love anything "navy issue" I'm a bigger fan of Attack Frigates and would prefer to see those properly useful before releasing any more new smaller ships



I totally agree those guys need some love, but at the same time new Navy Destroyers would just be current models (Corax/Talwar/Dragoon/Algos) with the navy paint job, and slightly different stats... Far less work than an actual new ship, so I can't see them taking much time out of other projects such as Frigate rebalance.


There are no roles for these ship except "Give free account even more options" which is not an actual goal CCP should design for.
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#10 - 2017-04-19 16:28:52 UTC
I think Navy Faction Destroyers will generate a lot of small fleet PVP. Granted the TIII destroyers are nice but very costly to fly. At around 10 million apiece the price and available for Alpha Clones to use them would provide a great benefit to the market as a whole.

Alpha Clones being able to use the Navy Destroyers would also wet their lips on PvP as they would be able to go after the more skilled but relatively still young Omega from Alpha Clones.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2017-04-19 16:35:27 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:
I think Navy Faction Destroyers will generate a lot of small fleet PVP. Granted the TIII destroyers are nice but very costly to fly. At around 10 million apiece the price and available for Alpha Clones to use them would provide a great benefit to the market as a whole.

Alpha Clones being able to use the Navy Destroyers would also wet their lips on PvP as they would be able to go after the more skilled but relatively still young Omega from Alpha Clones.


10 mill is below the price point of some if not all navy frigs.

It's also pretty much the price point of T1 cruisers.

If alpha can afford to lose navy destroyer for 10 mill/hull, they can afford to lose 10 mill/hull T1 cruisers.
Namaan
Cursoribus
#12 - 2017-04-19 16:57:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Namaan
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Namaan wrote:
perseus skye wrote:
Although I do love anything "navy issue" I'm a bigger fan of Attack Frigates and would prefer to see those properly useful before releasing any more new smaller ships



I totally agree those guys need some love, but at the same time new Navy Destroyers would just be current models (Corax/Talwar/Dragoon/Algos) with the navy paint job, and slightly different stats... Far less work than an actual new ship, so I can't see them taking much time out of other projects such as Frigate rebalance.


There are no roles for these ship except "Give free account even more options" which is not an actual goal CCP should design for.


Thats one way to look at it, but in truth it gives all accounts more options. Alpha's get 1, Omegas get 4... As I said, more stuff to make, fly, and blow up.

More Alphas in faction warfare = more dogs in the fight, which is good for everyone.

As for the role of the ship I would hope it finds something unique for it's size, and with the coming nerf to RLML these would give a more sustained source of LM DPS in Caldari's case.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#13 - 2017-04-19 17:38:21 UTC
Wouldn't surprise me if CCP are keeping a close eye on the Sunesis. Who is using it and what for? If it is popular among Alphas they may consider Navy destroyers to fill that niche as the limited edition ship increases in price.

While assault frigates have had their PVP role taken over by T3 destroyers, the Devs at the Fanfest balance presentation said they were still very popular for low end PVE and may be optimized for that role when they eventually get their balance pass.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2017-04-19 17:43:00 UTC
Namaan wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Namaan wrote:
perseus skye wrote:
Although I do love anything "navy issue" I'm a bigger fan of Attack Frigates and would prefer to see those properly useful before releasing any more new smaller ships



I totally agree those guys need some love, but at the same time new Navy Destroyers would just be current models (Corax/Talwar/Dragoon/Algos) with the navy paint job, and slightly different stats... Far less work than an actual new ship, so I can't see them taking much time out of other projects such as Frigate rebalance.


There are no roles for these ship except "Give free account even more options" which is not an actual goal CCP should design for.


Thats one way to look at it, but in truth it gives all accounts more options. Alpha's get 1, Omegas get 4... As I said, more stuff to make, fly, and blow up.

More Alphas in faction warfare = more dogs in the fight, which is good for everyone.

As for the role of the ship I would hope it finds something unique for it's size, and with the coming nerf to RLML these would give a more sustained source of LM DPS in Caldari's case.


If you want a new source of LM damage, fix the corax instead of adding 4 ships.

More options is stupid if those new options only walk over the existing ones. T3D are a proof of that. Many stuff became borderline irrelevant because they were stomped out of their usual by a T3D doing it better.

Alpha that want to be in fac warfare can already be there with frigs, destroyers, cruisers and their existing navy variants. No need to add more unless you manage to find a niche where they would be useful that is not already covered by another ship. And no alpha-only role. If something is covered by a ship outside of alpha's grasp, that's too bad, they just need to sub.
Cade Windstalker
#15 - 2017-04-19 17:46:40 UTC
I'm not really seeing what kind of hole this would fill or why anyone, even an Alpha Clone, would ever use one of these over a regular Destoryer or a T1 Cruiser hull. Generally Navy ships are slightly better than T1 and may have slightly different bonuses and roles than the T1 hull they're based on, but they're also generally fairly significantly more expensive, and a Navy Dessy would still be extremely squishy for the cost and therefore of questionable value.
Namaan
Cursoribus
#16 - 2017-04-19 17:55:21 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
I'm not really seeing what kind of hole this would fill or why anyone, even an Alpha Clone, would ever use one of these over a regular Destoryer or a T1 Cruiser hull. Generally Navy ships are slightly better than T1 and may have slightly different bonuses and roles than the T1 hull they're based on, but they're also generally fairly significantly more expensive, and a Navy Dessy would still be extremely squishy for the cost and therefore of questionable value.


That is completely dependent on it's role bonus and I agree it would take something unique to give it value, and its something a NID would need to have before being put into the game... I'm sure someone more talented then me could find something, but off the top of my head the only unique thing I can think of is bonuses to the coming anit-bomb launchers to protect fleets, something a Destroyer should be doing.

Actually making them for the game is very low effort though, existing hulls given a repaint with existing skins, most of the work is just a small amount of number changes under the hood.
Namaan
Cursoribus
#17 - 2017-04-19 17:57:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Namaan
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Namaan wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Namaan wrote:
perseus skye wrote:
Although I do love anything "navy issue" I'm a bigger fan of Attack Frigates and would prefer to see those properly useful before releasing any more new smaller ships



I totally agree those guys need some love, but at the same time new Navy Destroyers would just be current models (Corax/Talwar/Dragoon/Algos) with the navy paint job, and slightly different stats... Far less work than an actual new ship, so I can't see them taking much time out of other projects such as Frigate rebalance.


There are no roles for these ship except "Give free account even more options" which is not an actual goal CCP should design for.


Thats one way to look at it, but in truth it gives all accounts more options. Alpha's get 1, Omegas get 4... As I said, more stuff to make, fly, and blow up.

More Alphas in faction warfare = more dogs in the fight, which is good for everyone.

As for the role of the ship I would hope it finds something unique for it's size, and with the coming nerf to RLML these would give a more sustained source of LM DPS in Caldari's case.


If you want a new source of LM damage, fix the corax instead of adding 4 ships.

More options is stupid if those new options only walk over the existing ones. T3D are a proof of that. Many stuff became borderline irrelevant because they were stomped out of their usual by a T3D doing it better.

Alpha that want to be in fac warfare can already be there with frigs, destroyers, cruisers and their existing navy variants. No need to add more unless you manage to find a niche where they would be useful that is not already covered by another ship. And no alpha-only role. If something is covered by a ship outside of alpha's grasp, that's too bad, they just need to sub.


Understandable stance, but in truth anything given to Alphas is given to all. I'm ok if CCP wants to just buff the T1 Dessy line... Alphas only do some things better because its better to have them do it then put someone with Omega skills on it, not that they are actually better.