Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Only if I'm enemy FW. If I'm a pirate trying to kill everyone equally then a missed fight is a complete failure. And even as enemy FW capturing the site is much less satisfying than capturing the site AND killing the ship attacking it. The beacons are a means to get PvP fights, not an objective that is interesting for its own sake.



Again, not possible with a realistic fit. You aren't going to counter a full rack of WCS with any ship that isn't an automatic lossmail against everything but stabbed farmers. And the existence of a single faction frigate which mitigates the problem is not an overall solution. I shouldn't be limited to a single ship choice to get fights.

Get fights...what fights are you missing out on? When they are warp stabbed up the arse are you really going to complain about missing out on a fight where they couldn't fight back anyway?

And if they can't use wcs do you think they are going to be easier to catch? Or do you think it's more likely they are going to leave fw all together and find a different way to make isk?

I doubt removing wcs will get you more fights. Might just make the place a whole lot quieter.

They could fight back if they didn't waste valuable slots on WCS. And by removing their "get out of jail free" card they'll be forced to learn how to fight back if they want to accomplish anything.



If they leave FW entirely and go back to highsec then at least incompetence and failure have been properly punished, and nobody has to waste time trying to engage someone that can't be caught. FW should be primarily about PvP, with the ISK being an incentive to do the PvP, not an opportunity for lazy minimal-risk ISK farming.



The problem, again, is that things like this encourage blobbing. If you know you only have a fixed time before the WCS activates and breaks your point then you have to bring more dps to kill your target before they can escape. That gets you the kill, but makes the fight much less entertaining because it's so one-sided.

Nope. The way to avoid engaging is situational awareness, and I've explicitly said that I have no problem with people carefully watching for a threat and escaping before I can catch them. The issue here is entirely with lazy and incompetent players who ignore the need to watch for potential threats, because they know they have enough WCS to just warp out if anyone tries to attack them.



Speak for yourself. I do plenty of ISK farming in 0.0 with a risk of being caught, because I know how to minimize those risks and keep a net positive ISK/hour.



Maybe they will if they're forced to learn, instead of being coddled with an auto-escape option that allows them to avoid learning how to win a fight.



That's unfortunate, because whoever said that is pretty clueless on game design. There are plenty of options for controlling whether or not you engage in a fight: situational awareness, ECM/neuts/etc to remove points, fast align times to get out before you can be tackled, fast ships that can burn out of tackle range and warp off, staying off the warp-in point so you have time to escape before tackle can close in and catch you, etc. All of these are far more interesting than declaring that you will never be caught by a solo player and filling your lows with WCS.

AAaaannnndddd there is the problem.

Pirate, not Militia, entering Plex sites.......

You know what, I could agree with you maybe.....

If first anybody not Militia entering one of these complex sites automatically becomes suspect (flashy yellow) the moment you hit the "use the acceleration" button on your UI.

Because without that, if someone cares about their Standings....they have to wait for you to shoot first, and as a non-military pilot or such, you have no legal business being in one of those sights.

WCS shouldn't be removed but there must be 'real' drawbacks using them, such as align speed or whatever (because target speed / rage or whatever it is i don't remember... sure lol).

On the other hand, in some cases it'd be good if they were "disabled" in some situation (most likely, FW combat sites)

The goal is not to remove them, but have people making the choice of "WCS over something as useful" (let's say, agility or speed for example, which works sometime better than WCS) :)

Yes I have had characters in FW in years past, and yes I know what it takes to hunt them down I have a scan character that does that every day so others can kill them.

I also know that the max you can get with WCS mods on a T1 Frigate is 1 point per slot.
I also know that using the T2 scrambler YOU can get 2 points per slot.
Yes I know WCS are low and scamble are mids.
All this means that you can fit twice as many points in scramble per slot as they can fit stabilization.
With all of this and chosing the proper ship for the job at hand you will ALWAYS be able to fit more points than they can.

So let's review these T1 frigate against T1 frigate problems you are having.

1. With proper ship choice you can always fit more points in scramble than they have in stabilization yet your targets get away. Failure on your part.

2. They are willing to sacrifice fits slots they would rather have for other things in order to fit those WCS, you are not willing to trade off something you want for the ability to tackle and hold them in place. Failure on your part.

3. You want CCP to change the game instead of adapting to the situations you face. Failure number 3.


I should not be limited to 1 single battleship that has drones as a primary weapons system AND gets bonuses to missiles, yet there is only 1 ship in the game that has that combination, like me if you want to fill a specific set of requirements there is often just one single ship in the game that can fill those requirements. asking for CCP to change the game instead of using the proper ship is just another in your long line of failures.

EvE is about choices and the consequences that go along with those choices, the FW farmers are making choices and willing to suffer the consequences that may come as a result of those choices, yet you are not, and yes you do have choices.
You could use a ship with a more appropriate set of traits and slot layout as Daichi suggests, but you are not willing to do that because. Another failure on your part.

You could fly what ever ship you want and sacrifice your fit so you can tackle and kill the farmers and take your chances with all the others you may come across, again you are not willing to do that because. Yet another failure on your part.

Perhaps your ultimate failure comes when comparing you to the carebear highsec miners because you have exactly the same attitude they do. They do not want to sacrifice in their fit for max yield so they can have a tank to prevent death by ganking so they want CCP to change the game to suit their wants. You are not willing to make sacrifices in your fit or fly the proper ship so you want CCP to change the game. So I give you the same advice everyone around here gives those carebear miners, you have to choose, tackle and kill the farmers but face death by other pirates because. Or fit to go toe to toe with the other pirates and watch the farmers warp away.

If it won't be you then it'll be someone else complaining about insta-warps or ECM or...

If you really wanted to catch these guys you could fit up a triple-scram setup or something and give the really inattentive ones a nasty surprise. The reason no one does this is because they don't like the trade-off they have to make.



Thank you for providing more support for my argument? That is, in point of fact, a source of ISK being exploited. We've seen this over and over with things in Eve. If something can't be done profitably with any consistency it won't be done, at least not by any population of players large enough to justify investment in the feature.



I highly highly doubt that, they'll just swap from WCS to full nano/inertial stab fits and continue to attempt to run away, because what they're after is ISK not a fight. Believe it or not the vast majority of *anyone* farming FW plexes out in low probably knows how to play the game, they're just out there to make ISK and have determined that running cheap stab fits and fleeing when challenges is more profitable.



Situational awareness only gets you so far, ECM and neuts don't work on a large variety of ships and ECM specifically is ineffective without a bonused ship, align time is the worst tank above insta-warp, the list of arguments against your arguments goes on.

What was said at the panel was perfectly good game design from the view of Eve as a whole, as opposed to someone focused just on FW plexes. It didn't rule out tweaking the bonuses and penalties for WCS but I don't see CCP ever completely removing them. That's an unrealistic expectation.

That is the player's purpose for being there, but ask yourself what the purpose of the FW is. Is it for people to make LP/ISK, or is the LP/ISK an incentive for players to go there so that they can get fights?

Allow me to bold the relevant part of the name:
Faction Warfare

When they rename the sites to Faction isk farming, then you argument becomes relevant.

If they want to avoid fights, they can run missions in high sec. Players shouldn't be making obscene isk running away from content.

Edit:

Since when? WCS use lowslots. Which means you can fit as much tank as you want. And if their goal is to run away like little bitches, what compromises are they actually making apart from none? They aren't looking to fight anyways, the drawbacks are irrelevant to them.

Look... if we're talking about farming plexes, there are lots of things that can be done to limit that.

I don't think removing WCS is the answer for that. WCS is the counter to Scram/Disruptor use and I don't think you should remove one without removing the other.

I favor the idea of placing every FW plex inside a bubble that extends 10km past the range where you can trigger the plex. Other than farming in an interceptor, you're going to risk PvP when you enter a FW plex.

It's two different issues. FW plex farming is an issue. WCS are not.