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Recent incursion issues

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Jo Hei
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#321 - 2012-01-22 23:51:03 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Jo Hei wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:

Then drop the reward to 10M ISK per hour,
Try and be serious for a change; it might do you some good. A mining ops can make more than 10M isk per hour per head, as can basic mission running. So much for a social experience in EVE online, the game where you can fire lasers at rocks together! ******* hoo-ray.
Okay. The hourly reward from HIGHSEC incursions should be no more than the average hourly reward doing level 4 missions. The hourly reward from doing LOWSEC incursions should be 25% more than HIGHSEC. The reward for doing NULLSEC incursions should be 35% more than HIGHSEC.


That's not bad, but doing lv 4 missions at what pace? Fully skilled char in faction BS or newly minted char in T1 BS?
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#322 - 2012-01-22 23:54:14 UTC
Darius III wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Join the BTL public channel. Twisted
I would but they banned me and 42 of my 53 alts \P/

Carebears always seem to have the strongest fascist tendencies.
Jo Hei
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#323 - 2012-01-22 23:54:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jo Hei
Ai Shun wrote:
Jo Hei wrote:
However, for whatever reason (read: tears), a number of older players dislike the fact that this new game feature presents itself as an attractive activity by promising a safe and secure risk-reward ratio.


I don't agree with all you have written; but it is well written and considered. My questions though.

Is it a sensible idea to introduce new players to fleet mechanics through a system that is unbalanced in terms of risk and reward, as this is contrary to the core philosophy of EVE Online? At the stage when the story rolls over and Incursions disappear, what will those players be left with and how difficult will it be for them to adjust to reality of risk within EVE?



It is sensible to balance the risk reward so that the feature becomes a permanent staple, as opposed to 'disappearing'. Sub in the incursions for any other pirate faction. Far enough into the future there will be some other feature worth quipping about with a similar risk-reward imbalance. The reality of risk within EVE should be what you allow it to be, not always what is forced upon you.
Krissada
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#324 - 2012-01-23 00:06:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Krissada
The incursion bears tried to disco us.
They managed to pod their own FC.

Quote:
http://violent-alternatives.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5362


Well done bears. Well done!
gfldex
#325 - 2012-01-23 00:06:38 UTC  |  Edited by: gfldex
Jo Hei wrote:
As a game feature to attract new players, Incursions are an excellent piece of work. They fix the most fundamental problem of the new player experience - a lack of safe and social interaction that is fun. Incursions introduce players to the social aspect of EVE gameplay; fleet ops. The barriers to entry for doing incursions are low.


Year right, all you need is a faction BS or a T3. Very noob friendly. I wonder how I ever thought about staying with EVE in 2004 as there where no Incursions to be seen for years. I'm terribly sorry but that's bullshit. Incursions do cater to those who don't like to lose things, even if it's only virtual things. It caters to those who don't want to worry about other player. Those players might even be noobs. But Incursions are by no means noobfriendly. Go and fine another excuse for your bitter tears.

Quite frankly, all this intense whining makes me wonder how many farmers depend on Incursions to feed their families.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Jo Hei
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#326 - 2012-01-23 00:11:47 UTC
Krissada wrote:
The incursion bears tried to disco us.
They managed to pod their own FC.

Quote:
http://violent-alternatives.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5362


Well done bears. Well done!


From what I've witnessed, that Scorpion was not with the bear fleet.

Also, why would bears try and disco you in highsec?

Nice try though. 3/10.

As for you "gfldex", guess what bro? It's 2012, not 2004.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#327 - 2012-01-23 00:16:10 UTC
Jo Hei wrote:
Krissada wrote:
The incursion bears tried to disco us.
They managed to pod their own FC.

Quote:
http://violent-alternatives.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5362


Well done bears. Well done!


From what I've witnessed, that Scorpion was not with the bear fleet.

Also, why would bears try and disco you in highsec?

Nice try though. 3/10.

As for you "gfldex", guess what bro? It's 2012, not 2004.

Did the bears try to form a proper fleet at last? Shocked

What about all this talk about "most incursion runners are 0.0 alts," wouldn't you think they'd have some idea how to do that properly then? Oh wait. Cool
Umega
Solis Mensa
#328 - 2012-01-23 00:18:49 UTC
Spineker wrote:
As if mining moon goo is more dangerous than incursions. The elite thing is so pathetic it would be funny if not for the hypocricy.


Go do it.

If you think moon goo mining isn't more dangerous than highsec Incursions.. go do it. What's stopping you? Perhaps the same reason that is stopping you from doing something in your favor ingame with Incursions? Lack of courage.. self confidence.. don't got a pair.. what's your reason?

As if keeping hundreds to thousands of people happy so they defend territory.. keeping a logistics backbone going for manufacturing.. keeping all them POS's fueled and protected is such an easy thing to manage. You don't have the slighest idea the effort behind moon goo.. cause if you don't do what it takes.. guess what, someone takes it from you. Get it? When will that simple philosphy sink in for some of you.

GO GET WHAT YOU WANT. Other's do.. that makes them successful.

Quote:
It is sensible to balance the risk reward so that the feature becomes a permanent staple, as opposed to 'disappearing'. Sub in the incursions for any other pirate faction. Far enough into the future there will be some other feature worth quipping about with a similar risk-reward imbalance. The reality of risk within EVE should be what you allow it to be, not always what is forced upon you.


Incursions should be finished.. instead of farming them while Sansha farms all the civilians they take. From a psychological stand-point.. the people simply farming Sansha and not kicking them out are more mentally demented than the 'griefers' showing up to end it.

The reality of risk within EVE should be what precautions and steps you take to avoid or dampen what could happen to you.. because this is EVE and it is an aspect of the game that people can and will force themselves upon you. Indirectly or directly. Indirectly there could be a strong case made that select groups farming Incursions are 'griefing' others.. forcing aspects upon others that have nothing to do with Incursions at all. The massive amount of LP and deflation to others LP value, the isk faucet, the harm on system residents in effected systems, the cost of PLEX.. what about those forces upon people effected by Incursion farming?

How many coins are one-sided.. I suppose only one with a narrowminded, 2 dimensional mindset.

 Ume-Pro Studios
gfldex
#329 - 2012-01-23 00:19:42 UTC
NaturalBeast wrote:
Get a bigger dad :)


Is you dad for hire?

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Fearless M0F0
Incursion PWNAGE Asc
#330 - 2012-01-23 00:22:02 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Okay. The hourly reward from HIGHSEC incursions should be no more than the average hourly reward doing level 4 missions.


You are forgetting LVL 4 missions can be done solo in a drake by a 1 month old character. Any incursion requires forming fleets with highly specialised pilots which take years to train.

You just CANNOT do incursions solo, you WILL NOT GET PAID if your fleet have less than a minimum number of pilots.

For all these reasons, incursion rewards MUST BE HIGHER than LVL 4, otherwise all these highly specialised pilots will go back to whatever they were doing solo before incursions. I know I would Bear
Spineker
#331 - 2012-01-23 00:23:20 UTC
Umega wrote:
Spineker wrote:
As if mining moon goo is more dangerous than incursions. The elite thing is so pathetic it would be funny if not for the hypocricy.


Go do it.

If you think moon goo mining isn't more dangerous than highsec Incursions.. go do it. What's stopping you? Perhaps the same reason that is stopping you from doing something in your favor ingame with Incursions? Lack of courage.. self confidence.. don't got a pair.. what's your reason?



How do you get a pair? Do you need to do 10 blob runs and some alliance gives you a pair? Or gangbang some lone shuttle at the 0.0 gate Pee v Pee on each other like dogs on a car tire?

How do you know what I do in this game? You don't. I don't run incursions either I just laugh at you Null Epeeners.

Maybe If I DC in a blob I will learn confidence?
gfldex
#332 - 2012-01-23 00:28:32 UTC
Umega wrote:
How many coins are one-sided..


This one got 3. There are plenty of players who are forced out of a constellation they want to run missions in or do some mining. Doesn't look like they have a lobby here.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#333 - 2012-01-23 00:28:59 UTC
Jo Hei's comment make no sense to me. Seriously what's with this claim that Incursions are for new players? The tutorials must be ridiculous now if newbies are rolling out with Faction Battleships and T3s by the end of it. There's all sorts of other assumptions made as well, "New players need and want safe social interaction", and that "Incursions as designed are fun."

The players that want endless safe unhindered High Sec Incursions do not represent all new players, do not represent all High Sec players, and they don't represent any legitimate form of gaming that ought to be found in any Sandbox MMO built around player conflict.
Jo Hei
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#334 - 2012-01-23 00:36:14 UTC
Xorv wrote:
Jo Hei's comment make no sense to me. Seriously what's with this claim that Incursions are for new players? The tutorials must be ridiculous now if newbies are rolling out with Faction Battleships and T3s by the end of it. There's all sorts of other assumptions made as well, "New players need and want safe social interaction", and that "Incursions as designed are fun."

The players that want endless safe unhindered High Sec Incursions do not represent all new players, do not represent all High Sec players, and they don't represent any legitimate form of gaming that ought to be found in any Sandbox MMO built around player conflict.


Most newbies roll up to incursions in Maelstroms/Ravens/Rokhs/Abaddons. Not T3 and Faction BS.

Players dont want an "endless safe unhindered" experience. They want an experience. It has some risk involved; from who you fleet with to how (and what) you fly.

I for one think that this particular "Sandbox MMO built around player conflict" could really use more players to conflict with. That's why I support a game feature which allows new players to learn how to fly, how to make money, and how to deal with risk at an early stage. Eventually they will get down to PVP, one way or another. My advice to you? HTFU.
Novinya
Perkone
Caldari State
#335 - 2012-01-23 00:37:33 UTC
I think people killing the mothership like this and ending the incursion 'early' is the perfect example of EVE's open ended sandbox nature where players can take matters into their own hands.

A lot of people were unhappy that the incursions were such ISK faucets, and they decided to do something about it and start closing them down promptly.

I don't see an issue.

You'll get your LP rewards faster, anyway.
Brumi Viri
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#336 - 2012-01-23 00:37:35 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Brumi Viri wrote:
Ban one Player for the Good of the Game or loose more subscribers. 1 + 1 = 0

The word is LOSE. Not LOOSE. For f*ck's sake.

To your comment though. Ban someone for what? Playing the game within the rules? Are you a secret fascist? I think you are.


thanks
Traiori
Going Critical
#337 - 2012-01-23 00:38:19 UTC
So when my corporation has to put up with having every incursion in the game in our exploration space, Brick Squad will come and tidy them up within 24 hours?

Oh good.

It'll save us having to do without bounties and the like for the week or so they take to despawn out on a hisec island where no one every ventures.

We get kind of fed up of incursions tbth. We don't have 70-80 pilots in the entire region let alone 70-80 pilots willing to run incursions...
Lysaeus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#338 - 2012-01-23 00:42:00 UTC
No, if the incursion bears aren't running them, they'll probably be left alone. It's just the ones that they intend to farm for endless freshly printed isk that get closed down as intended.
Brumi Viri
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#339 - 2012-01-23 00:45:01 UTC
NaturalBeast wrote:
When I was a kid my dad always said play nice with the other kids. I tried, I really did.

But there was always that kid who wanted to ruin it for the other kids. Fortunately my dad was bigger than his.

I enjoyed my sandbox immensely.

Get a bigger dad :)


You probably live in a backward country where people can't own guns.
Sicex
#340 - 2012-01-23 00:45:04 UTC
Spineker wrote:
As if mining moon goo is more dangerous than incursions. The elite thing is so pathetic it would be funny if not for the hypocricy.


Umega beat me to it using the exact words I would have... (repeating to hopefully make you understand what type of game this is and why we love it).

Umega wrote:
Go do it.


Go and moon mine! Those that do it easily didn't start by doing it easily. They fought for the territory, they trained their abilities, then they defend their territory.

Honestly, if Incursions are truly supposed to be end-game material... then by the time you are at the 'end' of EVE you should be at least ready to shoot your guns at someone else. We've been doing it for years, its how New Eden keeps spinning.

Move Incursions to lowsec for the obvious boost to that territory and you also boost classic, true pirate warfare like gatecamps and then maybe even the bears will see less griefing? Surely the Bears wouldn't complain if legitimate pirate tactics were used...
Oh, no, they would just begin posting about how we are psychopaths again. Roll

"EVE is PVP," I wish CCP would just change the damn game motto to this so we would stop having to educate all newcomers and WOW raiders.