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Why is CCP spending so much time on rehashing content?
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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#41 - 2017-04-17 12:23:57 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
The reason that 90+% of the ideas in F&I get shot down is because they're often repeats of prior posts, poorly thought out, easily exploited, have no place in Eve and are generally just shite.


Yep.. Oh and if you don't like their idea (or you recognize that the idea has so many wholes the makers of swiss cheese want to sue them for copyright infringement), well then, "you are just afraid of change". Because there is NO WAY their idea could just be the stupid bullshit everyone else already knows it is Twisted

Players don't "shoot down" any CCP ideas. WE CAN'T, CCP owns and runs the game, and everyone knows CCP does what they want, not what we tell them. Half the time they don't even listen to feedback they specifically asked for...

If CCP did what we told them to do, lots of things going WAY back to Dominion Sov would have never happened. But the'"bright ideas" (that are actually stupid and/or self serving ideas) types need someone to blame other than themselves for the fact that they have bad thought processes that are easily exposed as such as soon as they post them.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#42 - 2017-04-17 12:34:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
manus wrote:


Is there a reluctance to try something new? Why is that? Is CCP just going to milk EVE until players have eventually abandoned it? Its a game with so much potential but i don't see much drive in pushing it forward.



We watched CCP almost drive EVE and the entire company into the ground pursuing "something new" at every turn while deliberately ignoring the actual game and actual players. We've watched FOR YEARS as CCP pursued 'new players' that never materialized while taking for granted the people who already played. We saw CCP add 'Jesus feature content' that no one uses or likes (cough drifters cough) or unbalanced content that very very few daily EVE players make use of (incursions).

When CCP tries to fulfill EVE's "potential" (whatever the hell that is) in pursuit of 'opening up the game to new players', it goes wrong. Every Time.

When CCP concentrates only on giving people tools and expecting them to figure things out for ourselves, amongst ourselves, things go right.

It's not hard to understand.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#43 - 2017-04-17 13:41:37 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
manus wrote:


Is there a reluctance to try something new? Why is that? Is CCP just going to milk EVE until players have eventually abandoned it? Its a game with so much potential but i don't see much drive in pushing it forward.



We watched CCP almost drive EVE and the entire company into the ground pursuing "something new" at every turn while deliberately ignoring the actual game and actual players. We've watched FOR YEARS as CCP pursued 'new players' that never materialized while taking for granted the people who already played. We saw CCP add 'Jesus feature content' that no one uses or likes (cough drifters cough) or unbalanced content that very very few daily EVE players make use of (incursions).


Confirmed scared of change.

Every player here has something about the game they like Jenn, and every change CCP make affects some of these players. If they buff freighter hp, gankers will cry, if they nerf freighter hp, haulers will cry. If they sit still and change nothing, eventually everyone cries boredom. The player count has flat-lined and that is being generous.

I gave wormholes as a good example of an expansion, it brought new space, with new mechanics, which appealed to a group that didn't have exactly what they wanted in game, and rewarded them with new resources, if they could get those rewards themselves. The fun of a game is in figuring it out, once it is figured out you are just running through the motions like a machine.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#44 - 2017-04-17 14:19:21 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
manus wrote:


Is there a reluctance to try something new? Why is that? Is CCP just going to milk EVE until players have eventually abandoned it? Its a game with so much potential but i don't see much drive in pushing it forward.



We watched CCP almost drive EVE and the entire company into the ground pursuing "something new" at every turn while deliberately ignoring the actual game and actual players. We've watched FOR YEARS as CCP pursued 'new players' that never materialized while taking for granted the people who already played. We saw CCP add 'Jesus feature content' that no one uses or likes (cough drifters cough) or unbalanced content that very very few daily EVE players make use of (incursions).


Confirmed scared of change.

Every player here has something about the game they like Jenn, and every change CCP make affects some of these players. If they buff freighter hp, gankers will cry, if they nerf freighter hp, haulers will cry. If they sit still and change nothing, eventually everyone cries boredom. The player count has flat-lined and that is being generous.

I gave wormholes as a good example of an expansion, it brought new space, with new mechanics, which appealed to a group that didn't have exactly what they wanted in game, and rewarded them with new resources, if they could get those rewards themselves. The fun of a game is in figuring it out, once it is figured out you are just running through the motions like a machine.

Nah, Jenn is largely correct. Many if not all of the "new" features, especially the ones designed to broaden the player base have either failed, or like Incursions, actually hurt the overall game. I won't speak for Jenn, but in my view the Apocrypha expansion that released wormholes was a success because it played to the game's strengths and core design. Wormholes are Eve Online: Hardcore in that they feature complete asset loss and no local and badass NPCs and they were embraced by the core Eve players as an excellent addition to New Eden. Wormholes featured new resources and new mechanics which provide a slightly different flavour to the fundamental game.

If CCP ever gets there, the new Jove (or whatever) space will have to deliver the same if it is to be a success. If Jove space turns out to be a lame theme park intended to draw in non-traditional Eve players it will ignored and ridiculed by the current player base and languish unused and I am sure CCP Seagull and co. are quite aware of this. Depending on execution, this new space could very well be a success and a worthy addition to New Eden that stokes player engagement and activity and I think most Eve players are rooting for CCP to deliver this.

Change is constant in Eve Online. It always will be as new things are added and players figure out things or change strategies. There are some fundamental truths however that harken back to the game's inception, and it does seem to be that the further CCP strays from those, the more trouble it seems to get itself into. There is nothing wrong with focussing on your core competencies and building the best damn PvP sandbox game possible ignoring the constant bleating from the minority that dangles the lie that untold riches and subscriber counts await over the next nerf to the game.

Eve is not going to die because there is too much change or too much conflict. It is going to die by an increasing death spiral of boredom and inactivity brought on by the whining of players who crave safety and the feeling of "winning" that excess resources bring. We are already well along that path, but I don't think we have crossed the point of 'bingo fuel'. There is still plenty of content left in this game but CCP really should stop squandering it on short-sighted attempts to 'safen' the game to broaden the player base. I would think that 6 years of this would finally convince them that those players simply don't exist but only time will tell if they have got that message.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#45 - 2017-04-17 14:22:12 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
manus wrote:


Is there a reluctance to try something new? Why is that? Is CCP just going to milk EVE until players have eventually abandoned it? Its a game with so much potential but i don't see much drive in pushing it forward.



We watched CCP almost drive EVE and the entire company into the ground pursuing "something new" at every turn while deliberately ignoring the actual game and actual players. We've watched FOR YEARS as CCP pursued 'new players' that never materialized while taking for granted the people who already played. We saw CCP add 'Jesus feature content' that no one uses or likes (cough drifters cough) or unbalanced content that very very few daily EVE players make use of (incursions).


Confirmed scared of change.

Every player here has something about the game they like Jenn, and every change CCP make affects some of these players. If they buff freighter hp, gankers will cry, if they nerf freighter hp, haulers will cry. If they sit still and change nothing, eventually everyone cries boredom. The player count has flat-lined and that is being generous.

I gave wormholes as a good example of an expansion, it brought new space, with new mechanics, which appealed to a group that didn't have exactly what they wanted in game, and rewarded them with new resources, if they could get those rewards themselves. The fun of a game is in figuring it out, once it is figured out you are just running through the motions like a machine.


The last time CCP gave us some information, Wormholes were like 3-4% of the character population of EVE. Huge feature success there mate.

I get that you are perpetually dissatisfied with the game, but that's a preference problem, not a "CCP needs to do something" problem. The problem isn't change, it's the pace of change that doesn't suit you, this game is radically different from the one I started playing in 2007 and that's ok because after a few hiccups between 2009 and 2012, CCP settled back down and became a bit more deliberate with how they were progressing things.

I like deliberate, as opposed to the rash "hurry up" recklessness you seem to always advocate, recklessness and hubris is what almost killed CCP and thus this game.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#46 - 2017-04-17 14:27:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Black Pedro wrote:

Nah, Jenn is largely correct. Many if not all of the "new" features, especially the ones designed to broaden the player base have either failed, or like Incursions, actually hurt the overall game. I won't speak for Jenn, but in my view the Apocrypha expansion that released wormholes was a success because it played to the game's strengths and core design. Wormholes are Eve Online: Hardcore in that they feature complete asset loss and no local and badass NPCs and they were embraced by the core Eve players as an excellent addition to New Eden. Wormholes featured new resources and new mechanics which provide a slightly different flavour to the fundamental game.

If CCP ever gets there, the new Jove (or whatever) space will have to deliver the same if it is to be a success. If Jove space turns out to be a lame theme park intended to draw in non-traditional Eve players it will ignored and ridiculed by the current player base and languish unused and I am sure CCP Seagull and co. are quite aware of this. Depending on execution, this new space could very well be a success and a worthy addition to New Eden that stokes player engagement and activity and I think most Eve players are rooting for CCP to deliver this.

Change is constant in Eve Online. It always will be as new things are added and players figure out things or change strategies. There are some fundamental truths however that harken back to the game's inception, and it does seem to be that the further CCP strays from those, the more trouble it seems to get itself into. There is nothing wrong with focussing on your core competencies and building the best damn PvP sandbox game possible ignoring the constant bleating from the minority that dangles the lie that untold riches and subscriber counts await over the next nerf to the game.

Eve is not going to die because there is too much change or too much conflict. It is going to die by an increasing death spiral of boredom and inactivity brought on by the whining of players who crave safety and the feeling of "winning" that excess resources bring. We are already well along that path, but I don't think we have crossed the point of 'bingo fuel'. There is still plenty of content left in this game but CCP really should stop squandering it on short-sighted attempts to 'safen' the game to broaden the player base. I would think that 6 years of this would finally convince them that those players simply don't exist but only time will tell if they have got that message.


No, no and no Black Pedro, you are just afraid of change, because you hate new players, progress and cute puppies. You are teh evil! because you don't buy into my utopian view of how great EVE could be if CCP would just throw everything they've learned out the window even though those lessons saved the company and listen to some randoms on the forums. Don't you know nothing??

Sorry, thought I'd do my good deed of the day and save Mr. Mieyli the trouble of having to post that himself. Cool
Cade Windstalker
#47 - 2017-04-17 15:05:54 UTC
manus wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Collectively eve players tend to shoot down lots of CCPs more imaginative ideas because they don't want their area of the game affected. .


This is a good point. CCP needs someone strong and confident. Someone who is not afraid to make a game HE likes. The second CCP starts treating development as a populairty contest the death spiral will begin. And i think they started doing this some time ago. It would explain why when going back and forward in the updates most of the content is unrelated to gameplay, and merely superficial. Ie. new skins, anniversary ships, changes to the aurum store etc. Its pathetic.


I'm really not sure when you think Eve, or any game, has done anything other than this. Completely new stuff is *way* more time consuming and expensive to make than refreshing old stuff the vast majority of the time, and they can't *just* put new stuff in or the old stuff ends up looking like crap and dragging the whole experience down.

CCP has flat out said that one of the biggest expansions they've ever done, and the most popular because of all the new stuff that it brought, Apocrypha created a huge chunk of technical debt that they then had to pay off, and that has to be paid off in the form of bug fixes and going back over old ground instead of creating more new stuff. The same goes for any old thing in the game.

Your expectations here are just massively unrealistic. You expect CCP to stop patching and improving old content and focus soley on bringing out new experiences, which they would then have to maintain and update... or not because apparently in your world that's not something that should ever happen.

Rroff wrote:
Nope - I've always been one to chase the esoteric/outside the box things - sadly these often become casualties of balance or other changes in overlapping or other parts of the game even when it could have been avoided.

I came into Eve from a different direction to many people (I watched my brother playing it for about 3 years without ever having the slightest interest in playing it myself until I saw them doing wormhole PVE and PVP with dreads and I started the game with the intention of skilling up for a moros with no idea how long that would take :D) and a lot of the day to day gameplay really doesn't interest me at all - I'd rather just spend the time playing an FPS shooter or whatever.


Kinda sounds like your issue then may be with the core Eve gameplay. You've as much said it's not something you enjoy, you like running around the fringes of the gameplay and finding oddities. It's the nature of game development that things like that are going to get less attention or be culled when they cause problems.

Even if something gets changed or removed when it may not have been necessary to do so that doesn't really change the math surrounding the decision to do so. If the choice is between preserving some niche corner of gameplay that affects almost no one, or spending way less time on whatever needs to be changed at the expense of that little tiny corner any dev I know is going to choose the route that costs them less dev time.
manus
Subhypersonics
#48 - 2017-04-17 16:40:59 UTC  |  Edited by: manus
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Completely new stuff is *way* more time consuming and expensive to make than refreshing old stuff the vast majority of the time



New content may be more time consuming, but it is worth more to players. So the extra time it takes to develop new content is going to pay off more. If you are so smart why dont you realise this?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#49 - 2017-04-17 16:59:40 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:


Your expectations here are just massively unrealistic. You expect CCP to stop patching and improving old content and focus soley on bringing out new experiences, which they would then have to maintain and update... or not because apparently in your world that's not something that should ever happen.



+1

They (the "give us NEW STUFF" people) also ignore the past. Many of them weren't even around when EVERY expansion of EVE contained a "Jesus Feature". There was always a lot of hype, and those expansions were always broken. And CCP would put the new Jesus Feature into the game, "iterate on it" for a few months, and then totally abandon the feature.

WE (the community) were the ones who said "stop adding new stuff, fix the stuff you have already, then maybe in the future go back to adding new stuff". Because of all the mish-mashed jesus features, EVE was a buggy almost unplayable mess for a long time. Now its not, and people have gotten both spoiled (by how well the game runs) and bored (because of the lack of jesus features) and are complaining , as if the past events in EVE never happened.



Rroff wrote:
Nope - I've always been one to chase the esoteric/outside the box things - sadly these often become casualties of balance or other changes in overlapping or other parts of the game even when it could have been avoided.

[quote]
Kinda sounds like your issue then may be with the core Eve gameplay. You've as much said it's not something you enjoy, you like running around the fringes of the gameplay and finding oddities. It's the nature of game development that things like that are going to get less attention or be culled when they cause problems.

Even if something gets changed or removed when it may not have been necessary to do so that doesn't really change the math surrounding the decision to do so. If the choice is between preserving some niche corner of gameplay that affects almost no one, or spending way less time on whatever needs to be changed at the expense of that little tiny corner any dev I know is going to choose the route that costs them less dev time.


Oddly enough I was just talking to the same poster about the same thing in another thread.

I know the feeling, I too like the oddities, experimenting with lesser used ships, modules, content, finding new ways to do things etc. it keeps the game fresh for me.

And CCP has nerfed a lot of that right out from under me. I used to get mad at it, but I came to realize that it's better that the game get better than I get to keep doing the fringe thing I was doing. Two recent examples were the changes to fighter assign (that I mentioned in that other thread) and changes to ECM bursts (now they jam your own drones, making them mostly useless in PVE where I used ECM bursts to keep aggro off my drones.

The game is what's important, even if sometimes the game makers accidentally kill interesting gameplay for the greater good.
manus
Subhypersonics
#50 - 2017-04-17 17:13:15 UTC  |  Edited by: manus
Jenn aSide wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:


Your expectations here are just massively unrealistic. You expect CCP to stop patching and improving old content and focus soley on bringing out new experiences, which they would then have to maintain and update... or not because apparently in your world that's not something that should ever happen.


Imo it is you two who needs a reality check. Please check updates.eveonline.com. Browse backward and forward. For example the may expansion

1. Logos on alliance citadels
2. Faction titans - Its a little interesting, but not really
3. New introduction video
4. Plex changes
5. Gifting
6. Anniversary ships

It has to be a joke?


So lets see what they have planned for next update after may.

1. Vexor & Ishtar redeisgn - are you ******* kidding me? Another redesign?
2. New player experience improvement - How about you make actual content? How is that for new player experience improvement? It also works for players who are not new
3. Some sort of exo planet thing in collaboration with University of Reykjavik. It has to be a joke.

I could go on.
Cade Windstalker
#51 - 2017-04-17 17:37:17 UTC
manus wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Completely new stuff is *way* more time consuming and expensive to make than refreshing old stuff the vast majority of the time



New content may be more time consuming, but it is worth more to players. So the extra time it takes to develop new content is going to pay off more. If you are so smart why dont you realise this?


Yes, for about a month at most, at which point it's now old content, and patches and fixes still have value, often substantial value, and especially when something has been in a bad state for a long time. Carriers for example are seeing more use now than they ever have, as are Capital Ships in general. You can't reasonably look at the capital ships rework and say that the two aren't connected. People who invested in these ships are enjoying them more, and more people are pushing towards and investing in them.

In general the ratio of work to payoff will almost always favor patching and updating new content, which is why most game developers prefer a mix of new features and updating old content. For example right now we're getting new structures, new moon mining mechanics, and the Blood Raider shipyards which are the vanguard of an entirely new form of PvE for Eve. At the same time we're also getting tons of bug fixes, iteration on the older structures, continuing ship and module tiericides and rebalances, and model reworks on old and outdated ship models that either look horrible, don't support new render tech, or both.

It's not that I'm particularly smart here, I just understand how development works, how much time goes into these various bits of content, and I listen to parts of the playerbase outside the little echo chamber I play in.

manus wrote:
Imo it is you two who needs a reality check. Please check updates.eveonline.com. Browse backward and forward. For example the may expansion

1. Logos on alliance citadels
2. Faction titans - Its a little interesting, but not really
3. New introduction video
4. Plex changes
5. Gifting
6. Anniversary ships

It has to be a joke?


So lets see what they have planned for next update after may.

1. Vexor & Ishtar redeisgn - are you ******* kidding me? Another redesign?
2. New player experience improvement - How about you make actual content? How is that for new player experience improvement? It also works for players who are not new
3. Some sort of exo planet thing in collaboration with University of Reykjavik. It has to be a joke.

I could go on.


See above for a nice list of what CCP are working on that hasn't been cherry picked, or are you so ignorant of what's going on in the game that you can only find a few month's worth of stuff out of that site as a reference point?
Vokan Narkar
Doomheim
#52 - 2017-04-17 17:39:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Vokan Narkar
manus wrote:
Dont CCP have anyone at their disposal who play the game and also have an imagination? It is frustrating to see the growth in player count stall and then reverse and each new update bring nothing significantly interesting.

Is there a reluctance to try something new? Why is that? Is CCP just going to milk EVE until players have eventually abanonded it? Its a game with so much potential but i dont see much drive in pushing it forward.

maybe because if you look at forums, except few strangers (who are soon silenced by the crowd) there is nobody who wish there was anything new

players likes the game as it is soo much they are going to kill it by their despice of new content
Cade Windstalker
#53 - 2017-04-17 17:48:24 UTC
Vokan Narkar wrote:
manus wrote:
Dont CCP have anyone at their disposal who play the game and also have an imagination? It is frustrating to see the growth in player count stall and then reverse and each new update bring nothing significantly interesting.

Is there a reluctance to try something new? Why is that? Is CCP just going to milk EVE until players have eventually abanonded it? Its a game with so much potential but i dont see much drive in pushing it forward.

maybe because if you look at forums, except few strangers (who are soon silenced by the crowd) there is nobody who wish there was anything new

players likes the game as it is soo much they are going to kill it by their despice of new content


Lol!

No one here is saying they hate new content, quite often new features get some of the best reception, but long-time players understand that the game is better in the long run if bugs and bad balance conditions don't linger for half a decade or more before being addressed.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#54 - 2017-04-17 17:49:26 UTC
Vokan Narkar wrote:
manus wrote:
Dont CCP have anyone at their disposal who play the game and also have an imagination? It is frustrating to see the growth in player count stall and then reverse and each new update bring nothing significantly interesting.

Is there a reluctance to try something new? Why is that? Is CCP just going to milk EVE until players have eventually abanonded it? Its a game with so much potential but i dont see much drive in pushing it forward.

maybe because if you look at forums, except few strangers (who are soon silenced by the crowd) there is nobody who wish there was anything new

players likes the game as it is soo much they are going to kill it by their despice of new content


This is not true. New stuff is fine as long as it's not the "make, hype up and then abandon after 4 months" stuff that CCP used to do.

The problem is that the people who want 'new stuff' are always people who can't be pleased, so CCP would have to add new stuff every week to stay ahead of their boredom curve.

On top of that, people are giving too much credit to players. CCP doesn't give 2 flips about what people say on this forum, hell many of them don't even post here. CCP is simply applying lessons learned in the past when they almost destoryed their company chasing "new stuff" when old stuff was broken. they were even chasing new games while EVE was in a virtual maintenance mode.
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#55 - 2017-04-17 18:14:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarek Kree
Anyone who thinks there's not enough content in this game just doesn't know where to look. I've been playing for about a year now and have been methodically working my way through as much of the CCP generated content as I can and I've barely scratched the surface. It's staggering how much is here.

Not to mention, the purpose of a sandbox is to encourage player generated content - not have it spoon fed to you. This is analogous to a kid laying on the couch complaining that there's nothing to do while all of the other kids are outside playing.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#56 - 2017-04-17 18:31:56 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:
Anyone who thinks there's not enough content in this game just doesn't know where to look. I've been playing for about a year now and have been methodically working my way through as much of the CCP generated content as I can and I've barely scratched the surface. It's staggering how much is here.

Not to mention, the purpose of a sandbox is to encourage player generated content - not have it spoon fed to you. This is analogous to a kid laying on the couch complaining that there's nothing to do while all of the other kids are outside playing.


Want to know the really funny thing?

Most of the people who complain about 'content' don't use most of the content that is already in the game. I'm serious, you ask them about various types of PVE (missions, special things like COSMOS and Epic arcs, exploration, anomalies and expeditions, static sites and monuments, etc etc), and they know little or nothing about it. They will dabble in one or two things (almost always exclusively in high security space), scratching only the surface, and then come here to complain that there is not enough stuff to do.
Cade Windstalker
#57 - 2017-04-17 20:47:15 UTC
I thought we were just taking it as a given that when people complain about CCP not doing stuff in general terms what they actually mean is they're not doing stuff for them/that they want. If this isn't the case I need to go back and amend a few paragraphs to some previous posts... P
Aen Clarke
Walrus Mafia
SONS of BANE
#58 - 2017-04-18 04:02:15 UTC
I am so tired of people telling developers to come up with something new. If you don't think redesigns (In a game where the game exists of Ships) Is important than maybe you need to look something over. To be honest, im not a veteran player that has played for 10-5-2years straight, ive played since 2012 On and off and i just came back recently, and everytime i come back there is something new to look at and do, specially with the whole industry overhaul. I haven't even scratched the surface there. Infact i haven't even scratched the surface at all.

I just dont think its fair to constantly picking on developers all the time to always to come up with something new. People have said it before, in a game like this, you always need to rebalance and to patch things up with new ones. You can't just add new things and constantly keep up with totally new content if the content that exists in present time needs overhauling. And sure, maybe it doesn't fit your imagination or visions of the present game (i have problems like this with every game i play) But still tho, they are doing a good job. And here i expect to people to tell me how they are not doing a good job or where the have ****** up in the past.

Just to say it, if you think of it, almost every other in terms of MMO is kinda fail. This is still a great game.

And yet again, i would like some new content as well. But picking at them makes it up to nothing. Get an idea and share it.

Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#59 - 2017-04-18 04:06:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Mieyli
There is a false dichotomy going on in this thread that CCP can only either make progress or fix bugs/ balance. Well, the bugs will be endless, so fixing them will also be an endless task, and one which will only lose players from one group or another. If they want more players they have to pull them in, BUT (this part specifically for you Jenn) this does not mean abandoning what eve is. I do think you guys are scared of change, and you have your reasons, but I don't think it is really logical the way you attack players. CCP will do what they wnt, and if they are reading the forums what we say might influence them. If you guys really aren't afraid of change, then what changes would bring more players into the game?

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#60 - 2017-04-18 09:50:03 UTC
manus wrote:

Imo it is you two who needs a reality check. Please check updates.eveonline.com. Browse backward and forward. For example the may expansion
1. Logos on alliance citadels
2. Faction titans - Its a little interesting, but not really
3. New introduction video
4. Plex changes
5. Gifting
6. Anniversary ships
It has to be a joke?
So lets see what they have planned for next update after may.
1. Vexor & Ishtar redeisgn - are you ******* kidding me? Another redesign?
2. New player experience improvement - How about you make actual content? How is that for new player experience improvement? It also works for players who are not new
3. Some sort of exo planet thing in collaboration with University of Reykjavik. It has to be a joke.
I could go on.


I am always a bit amused how much players think game Developers lack awareness and imagination. Bonus points when people keep complaining about how an ageless sandbox game should be more like the myriad of already dead theme-park games.

AFAIK running and developing software at the scale of MMOs is mostly about doing the best thing you got the resources for. When all the game coding staff is occupied with something important (Let’s say like code the upwell structures that are without any alternative because the POS System hit sort of a hard limit.) then you have to get a couple of updates done with the graphics, PR, QM, balancing, ingame-shop and whatever you can manage.

I will try to make an educated guess about some points:

- Logos on alliance citadels: Those alliance logos are an important part of EVE’s multiplayer gameplay and the alliance players identify a lot with those Bees, Phages, Helmets, Foxes.

- Faction Titans: A bone for those players that reached almost everything in game. Maybe not interesting for everyone.. well I think it can be interesting for everyone because you can scout them, hunt them and get on the first faction titan kill mail ever. EVE is what you make it.

- New introduction video: Is probably not made by an actual game developer but some PR employee. When those have some spare time on their hands there is not much point in telling them: Go make some game content. And those trailers and intros are quite important for PR. A couple of EVE screenshots won’t get a lot of attention, will they?

- PLEX changes: Aurum was a mistake. A third currency after ISK and PLEX was not working well I guess. But mistakes happen and kudos to CCP for killing aurum, it's better to make a painful break than draw out the agony.

- Gifts/ Anniversary ships: Those are often things you have “lying around” anyway. Like the Sunesis model was kind of a leftover and originally a frigate model.

- Is that a joke: No it is not. But you may have a different grasp on what “content” mean in EVE than me. I for one think the move from off-grid to on-grid boosts together with the new role for Roquals were a great content creator in finest EVE styl: Dank kills, crabbing drama, hunting operations and the opportunity to earn a fortune when you played your cards well.
And did you left out the whole citadel stuff on purpose?

- Vexor redising: Someone is working on ship models and develops new gimmicks like the new moving parts. I guess we agree that it is a good idea to have someone develop new possibilities to keep the game up to date. Now is it a good idea to use those new textures on older ships? Up to debate, some games don’t do this but EVE does. Maybe because in EVE older ships are as viable as new ships and we don’t have this typical “use it for one update and then it will be surpassed and only the noobs will bother about it ever again” treadmill.

- New player improvement: The new Alpha clones where an success and EVE lives where other games die.. maybe they know what they are doing?

- Exo planet thing in collaboration with Reykjavik Uni: That’s great and somewhat free PR. And some players love to look for exp planets in game. ‘Cause nerds.. you know?